Smart home roller shutters / venetian blinds with conventional electricity

Yeah. I told him. He should offer both. However, I have no idea about KNX programming and no desire to call the electrician for every little thing later on. When I told him that, he said the system would run without further maintenance/programming after the initial installation...

It certainly works without changes and maintenance if it is well made. However, experience shows that over the years you will want to change something now and then. Nowadays there is ETS Home for that, which should be sufficient. You just need to have the project file and be willing to spend €350 (discount promotions are regularly available) on it. ETS is not rocket science, you can easily manage it if you are interested.

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Oh come on, roller shutter control including weather station, smoke detector as well as window/door contacts and a couple of PIR sensors + Hue and smartphone access. You really don’t want to claim that more than the knowledge of an apprentice in their second year is needed for this, do you? No matter what kind of overarching system you have installed in your house.

Just the documentation (which electricians are obligated to do) of the installation or commissioning costs a lot of money depending on the house and effort.

Exactly, that is done by the journeyman or even the master electrician and that costs something too. But considering the scope of functions, that really isn’t anything extraordinary and basically has long been available as a template in the drawer.

You first have to find an electrician who really knows KNX properly!
Unfortunately, I have experienced that about 50% of electricians have almost no clue, yet advertise KNX installations themselves.

Sure, but that’s the case with everything. A drywall installer who doesn’t master his craft properly produces rubbish. Or the tiler too.

In no trade on construction can you safely claim that 100% of the craftsmen who come really know what they are doing. Even though they advertise with it just the same.

If the builder himself has no clue about the subject, the electrician can easily convince him that (supposedly) nothing is possible...

Yes, unfortunately that’s the case but not only in the electrician guild. You can tell this already by the claim that KNX is expensive... if an electrician comes up with that statement, you can confidently terminate cooperation and look for another.

Our electrician advised us against a wireless variant and wants to sell us KNX.

Ah... finally someone who apparently knows what they’re talking about.

Programming "would be no problem"

He is right. It’s roughly on the level of an Excel spreadsheet.

We just want to be able to control the blinds "smartly" and maybe eventually add lighting.

What does “smartly” mean? “Smart” nowadays is a very elastic term and leaves a lot of room for interpretation. For one person “smart” means the blinds go up in the morning and down in the evening and there are one or two central switches plus the obligatory smartphone control.

In my eyes, there is absolutely nothing smart about this solution because it still requires various manual actions and actually only represents remote control with a tiny bit of automation (which often doesn’t really mean more comfort). For the average homeowner, this is often pretty much the pinnacle of what’s possible and indeed "smart" to the highest degree.

When I told him that, he said the system would run without further maintenance/programming after the initial installation...

Here too, he is right. Conventional electrical installations also run for decades without interventions from electricians. It’s no different with KNX. Nevertheless, interested laymen or anyone IT-savvy have various options to make minor or major changes themselves. Gladly from the sofa.

I agree with you there . However, I have also experienced a lot on construction sites and projects, and the questions that often come from the so-called "experts" here are quite adventurous and suggest that they don't have much experience with KNX ;) Certainly, KNX offers are often very overpriced. The excessive price is then justified with programming effort, etc. A layperson (client) cannot grasp this either and will have to accept it. For many, the word PROGRAMMING is already associated with stomach aches, and they cannot estimate effort and application at all. For you, programming is a hobby horse; for the 40-year-old pharmacist Kai-Uwe, it is comparable to quantum mechanics or rocket science. It's just the same with the topic of energy. Ask around in your circle of friends how many loads of laundry can be washed with 1 kWh. For the majority of people, it is simply not tangible and therefore you can tell them anything ;)

For many, the word PROGRAMMING is already associated with stomach aches and they cannot estimate the effort and application at all.

Sure, I completely agree with you. That's why people need to be informed about what it actually means and that programming as it is normally understood is only remotely related. Because often you meet those who think you constantly have to work on it and keep tweaking and programming. Of course, that's not the case. The more wishes the homeowners express from the start, the more can be taken into account and the fewer blind spots there will be, and you might only have to get involved again when the renovation of the property is due. But things like scenes or times or even simple if-then-else dependencies can be conveniently changed in KNX via the visualization or by smartphone/laptop. From my own experience, considering what's going on in this area right now... but things like Homeassistant, Nodered, MQTT etc. require at least double (rather five times) the programming effort (setup effort) compared to KNX.

What a pity! I had hoped for more information about the Gira System 3000 here. But maybe it still makes sense to revive the thread?

My starting point:
House construction in RP, the shell is up, many things down to the roller shutters with motors were predetermined, basically we also quite liked the planning with switches. But ...
This is the 3rd time I'm approaching smart home. Apart from a very old, proprietary roller shutter system, I have had experience with the old Homematic. Then came the Rademacher Homepilot and now ...??? For me, control of certain functions must be smart-comfortable, but by no means done via smartphone. A large PC screen would be preferable in my eyes!
I am looking for a hybrid solution between conventional, switch-operated control (senior- and dementia-proof) and modern home automation (functional without remote access, without internet cloud), which I mainly see as comfort. It should also be simple and maintainable by any electrician. Preferably also durable and not prone to malfunction. That may well cost more than what is currently visible. The current electrician apparently can wire very well, but has never actively dealt with smart home. :oops: For this reason, it should also be very easy to replace the normal switches with actuators.

So far, I have come across the following systems:
1. Bosch Smart Home with roller shutter actuators and Gira switches (€60/roller shutter switch + central unit)
2. Gira System 3000 (because of the predetermined Gira switches, additional cost approx. €100/roller shutter)
3. Homematic with actuators for the switch box and possibly also Gira switches

Are there any other suggestions for such a fairly conservative solution? Are there experiences with the quality of the actuators? From my experience so far, you set everything once for the roller shutters with astro function and then only need to readjust if necessary. So why expensive solutions?
A more advanced smart home system is currently not planned, since lighting control is possible with the mentioned systems and other applications (e.g. door intercom system) are supposed to run via other solutions.