Is an extra circuit / residual current device really necessary for the office?

  • Erstellt am 2020-06-09 17:23:46

danixf

2020-06-10 11:50:09
  • #1
No detailed argument is needed. It’s written in his Bible. The conduit takes just as long as the cable? You can simply roll out the conduit on a long straight stretch and then push the cable directly through it. Afterwards, lay it properly on the floor and cut the cable and conduit accordingly. It still takes a bit longer, yes. But not twice as long. Still not your problem. That’s just how it’s written. The part about curves is partially true. But no big deal. We pulled cables through three 90-degree bends ourselves. Threaded a piece of Styrofoam on a string and sucked it through with a vacuum cleaner at the other end. Then pulled the drawing spiral in and pushed/pulled on both ends. The "extra circuit" justification is questionable, but that’s debatable. He can be right sometimes. The joke is that this extra circuit is billed at 150€. At least for us, that means including installation, devices like RCD/circuit breakers, etc. Here it means: I pull a separate cable specifically to the one room. The breakthrough in the ceiling must be made anyway for other cables. Also, the wall needs chasing anyway in that room. Even without an extra circuit. Let that sink in. To be precise, 150€ is charged just to wire an extra cable in the panel, pull it through the existing ceiling breakthrough up to the door. A skilled electrician does that in 5 minutes. Max 10. The extra RCD. Google "RCD+MCB". The device costs 30€. Sometimes more depending on the supplier. If he wants to make a 50€ profit, then maybe around 100€. The part is just as big as a circuit breaker but takes up much less space. The trick? Both are integrated there and you don’t have to sacrifice an entire DIN rail for an RCD plus circuit breaker. So the bigger distribution board is completely unnecessary. For the whole work, a price of 150€ would be appropriate; if the distribution board is actually already undersized and an RCD+MCB has to be installed, then 200€ is still acceptable. Talk to the general contractor about what he charges. The word Chamber of Crafts often helps. When I read stuff like this, it annoys me that I’m not self-employed. You can turn rubbish into gold like this.
 

Mycraft

2020-06-10 12:45:35
  • #2
He is supposed to lay the CAT cables as DIN requires nowadays, namely replaceable in the installation conduit. The explanation is far-fetched.


Well, I don't understand the problem. My technology is secured not only by additional RCDs (yes, I know, it's actually not protection for the technology but for humans). Rather, all tech sockets also have additional local surge protection. I don't know how you handle this, but for me my technology, especially sensitive devices with data storage, etc.—so also PCs—is important, and I would never dream of connecting them to the same circuit in my own house as the rest. Especially when you still have all options open now.


There can be many different reasons why a larger cabinet is necessary because of this. We don’t know exactly what he is building there and what else you have. The cabinet usually does not consist only of circuit breakers and the two RCDs.


For that, you would have to know what you have in the walls and what’s inside the cabinet. Without background info, this is just guesswork.


In the past, there were no RCDs (or they were not required), and everything also worked “flawlessly.” Nowadays, two are mandatory, and in wooden houses even fire protection switches. You learn from mistakes.


It doesn’t necessarily have to be three-phase.
 

kati1337

2020-06-10 13:29:50
  • #3

I’ll try to enforce this through the general contractor. We would prefer that too.


Basically, I don’t have anything against the second circuit either, but the additional RCD doesn’t make sense to me (the RCD should trip if a device causes it, no matter where in the house it happens – what is the advantage if the computers are on a separate RCD? That they don’t get disconnected if some other device trips the RCD somewhere else in the house? Or that the house doesn’t lose power if a computer trips an RCD? Or what’s the idea behind that? I’ve already asked the electrician twice, and all I get is "you need that for the PCs."


I can’t get from him which circuits he plans for the house. I have already asked, but got no answer.
Otherwise, he wants to install 3 RCDs (2 according to regulation (??)), one for the office. I also can’t get which breakers he plans otherwise. I know it so far that every room has its own breaker (those are MCBs, I assume?), and some rooms with a lot of electronics, like the kitchen, have even more. For example, in the kitchen of our old house, the electric stove has its own breaker. But no separate RCD.


For all RCDs in the offer it says: "RCD - 40/0.03"
 

Mycraft

2020-06-10 14:06:16
  • #4

Yes, that is the idea, the more RCDs the less you lose. Possibly they want to be especially safe and completely isolate the room from the rest. Which in principle is not a bad idea with higher-quality technical equipment (this was already suspected further above).

I might even go so far as to use 2.5 mm² NYM cable for the supply line to the gamer paradise. (You never know, maybe they plan that too)


Yes, it is of course annoying that he doesn't come clean. Then pressure the GÜ to give you a plan.


Yes, RCBO means residual current circuit breaker with overcurrent protection. Commonly called: breaker.


Yes, as I said, that was once the case in the past. Cars also didn’t have seat belts before.


Yes, that tells you nothing except what is already known. 40A rated current and 30mA rated residual current. Number of poles or type is unknown.

But they can also be two-pole devices, I have installed those too. Only I have significantly more than the minimum requirements.
 

Scout

2020-06-10 15:57:59
  • #5
AFAIR DIN 18015 Tab.2007 requires more than 1 RCD. And at our construction site the electrician insisted on a separate RCD for the external cables, the number 3. Otherwise, depending on the rating factor, it can also well be that the additional protection either calls for its own RCD (or a higher rated RCD) because the nominal current is exceeded.
 

Stefan890

2020-06-10 18:29:15
  • #6
My combined FI+LS only need one TE, but are a bit more expensive. Which surge protection do you specifically use? I am still looking. The advantage of multiple FIs is: if one FI trips, all separate FI circuits continue to function. For example, it can also make sense to protect the refrigerator separately. So that the (e.g., refrigerator) doesn’t stay without power for a long time when away and an FI trips.
 

Similar topics
16.07.2015Cable for outdoor lamp too short11
20.09.2025House Pictures Chat Corner - Show off your house pictures!11893
05.05.2017LAN cabling in single-family house (prefabricated house)15
21.09.2017Electrical planning - How many sockets are enough?120
19.02.2018UPT cable - What is it and where to install?10
23.01.2025Build a terraced end house with an additional unit (GÜ) on your own1803
20.02.2020What does the electrician do during the shell construction phase?19
04.02.2020Installation of additional insulation for underfloor heating - cables lie on the raw floor slab25
07.09.2021Wi-Fi New Construction - Network Sockets/Cables53
15.04.2020New refrigerator is humming - experiences?30
08.04.2021Building without antenna and SAT-CAT cable without conduit?65
01.09.2020Which conduit for LAN cable?32
18.09.2020CAT cable in the utility room - not crimped?45
21.07.2021Problem with the electrician - what would you do?78
08.05.2021Connecting LED ceiling lamp - several cables hanging from the ceiling27
28.08.2021Looking for a suitable doorbell for CAT 7 cable12
04.01.2022How to distribute and connect SAT cable and Ethernet?16
04.07.2022Conduits for SAT and TK, mandatory or not in new construction?13
28.11.2022Do you need LAN cables in the garage?107

Oben