How quickly should one pay off a house?

Somehow, at least I read that from @ypg more often now, we spend too little money,

No, it’s not about money.

somehow spending money is equated with living one’s life.

No, that’s you. You justify expenses: you excuse old tried-and-true things, you justify expensive things. You talk about money all the time!

Therefore, I try to show here with concrete examples where we save money

You think too much about money!

Then you are in the hamster wheel of retirement provision.

You think too much about retirement provision. Man, no ass can get so old for everything you still want to save for. Your life runs on a low flame. Fixed ideas... I bet on your trips you think of nothing else but your optimized retirement provision or money.

I just don’t really know what the best way is.

Just let things take their course. If your house is so well off, then drop the other thoughts. But I know: you can’t do it without help at all. You named it yourself, the bad damned hamster wheel in your head. You can’t get out of it alone. Of course, one can now say, if you feel it’s right and it’s financially feasible, then let him. But I say: that is not healthy in the long run and makes you sick and depressed.

Yes, as compulsive as it reads, I would recommend therapy. I genuinely mean it. That can be done preventively so that you don’t fall into depression. I hope you don’t show your children this tense side. Honestly, your text makes me quite depressed. My loans run until I’m 81. Relax!

You justify expenses: You excuse old proven things, you justify expensive things.

So, should we rather live more frugally?

You keep talking about money!

That’s exactly what this thread is about. Right! If I want to exchange tips about my sport, I do that somewhere else. And with family, friends, etc., I have completely different topics. Here, specifically, it’s about the topic of home financing and everything around it.

You think too much about retirement provision. Man, no a** can get that old to save as much as you want to.

According to various calculations and experts, the pension level will continue to decline. This is purely about securing one’s existence and not about special longevity or anything like that. Some even say that by 2050 there might not be a statutory pension at all...

Your life is running on a low flame.

I’m curious about the reasoning of how one can read that from a thread here where I explicitly filtered out 99% of my life.

I bet, on your trips, you think of nothing else but your optimized retirement provision or money.

First, you lost your bet. Second, I always have to justify to friends & co. how little I think about money. We really only take what is left over and throw it into an ETF. Friends of ours save, invest in Bitcoins and Altcoins, do stock picking, analyze stocks, and then tell me about their hot tips. I don’t want to know anything about that, don’t even know the companies and/or Altcoins, don’t want to know, just throw what’s left into a global ETF and that’s it... :-D

Just let things take their course.

That goes wrong 90% of the time, see most retirees. Very few are really able to live as they wanted. Even with the 63 cohort (those retiring at about 63 with heavy deductions), I see that many wishes cannot be fulfilled. On the other hand, most seem really fed up with work by 63. You might not imagine that at 30 or 40 or 45, but I haven’t seen anyone who voluntarily stayed longer than 63. Those were the ones with constraints, where retiring at 63 would have really ended in poverty.

Those are personal examples. The examples from the media are even more widespread. A large majority of retirees already suffer from old-age poverty (German average pension is about 1,500 euros – that corresponds to a 120-hour job at minimum wage – a 28-hour week at minimum wage – the average is always above the median, meaning more than 50% of retirees live worse than 28-hour minimum-wage workers – and I don’t know a single person in the private sector who earns minimum wage – even unskilled workers earn at least 14.50 euros or more). When we retire, the age pyramid will have shifted even further.

I hope you don’t show your kids this uptight side.
Honestly, your text makes me quite depressed.
My loans run until I’m 81. Relax!

No, that’s exactly what I want to discuss here. In everyday life, I deal with money about 1% of the time and think that, for example, compared to friends who pay much more attention to it, I rather pay too little attention. Still, of course, I know it’s an important topic that one should perhaps be more involved with. The other 99% of my life I don’t want to discuss here in this thread.

Regarding loans until 81, I don’t see anything relaxed about that. That’s the sure path to old-age poverty. Remember, you can’t eat from a house, buy clothes, or travel. A house only means living rent-free. Maintenance, new heating, new roof, etc., you still pay for. Certainly, on average, maintenance and costs for heating, roof & co. are lower than rent, but you still need corresponding liquid assets to maintain the house and then maybe allow yourself a trip here, a restaurant there, etc.

Even with the '63 cohort' (those who retire at about 63 with heavy deductions), I see how many wishes still cannot be fulfilled. On the other hand, it really seems that the vast majority are tired of work by 63. Maybe you can’t imagine it at 30 or 40 or 45, but I have never experienced anyone voluntarily lasting longer than 63. Those were the ones with constraints, where retiring at 63 would have really ended in poverty.

Fun fact: with a net household income of 7,500 euros, we still cannot fulfill many wishes. So what now?

I cannot share your experiences at all. In my environment, no one works a blue-collar job on an assembly line. Of course, it looks different there. But I know plenty of people who work until the very end. Some are even a bit afraid of the "Papi ante Portas" life after work. The brain definitely deteriorates if you don’t actively keep it mentally fit. My mother and mother-in-law are retired and continue to work voluntarily on some days. My mother, in addition to paid work, also volunteers. They miss many things about work (social contacts, mental challenges, etc., etc.). Neither of them has to do it for the money.

Those I know who retire early are well off. They lack almost nothing. Usually, a big inheritance came in at some point. All liabilities were cleared plus enough money left in the account. The deductions don’t bother them. For some, the employer even pays the difference up to the deduction-free pension if they retire early.

I don’t seriously know anyone fleeing from work.

So should we live more frugally after all?

??? Who said that?

Here specifically, I am talking about the topic of home financing and everything around it.

This is just about pure existential security.

??? don’t exaggerate.

Secondly, I always have to justify to friends & co. how little I think about money.

Why do you have to justify yourself? Don’t you have other topics?

This fails 90% of the time, see most retirees. Very few are truly able to live the way they wanted. Even in the ’63 cohort (those who retire around 63 with heavy deductions) I see how many wishes simply cannot be fulfilled.

Uh, sorry, you said at the beginning that your reference point is your parents’ friends. My reference for my opinion is my friends and environment – and me, all here with about 10-year-old houses built for retirement at 60 or rather around ±50, basically your exemplary age group, to which my husband and I also belong by the way.
We with our own or financed houses live very well. The pension cuts are also within limits. Most leave with severance pay. But this actually only applies to those who worked in a large corporation. Those who have a house – like you – can still afford nice things and extras. It may be that this or that good car isn’t paid outright but leased, but let’s ignore that. Instead, other consumer goods are bought or the house is leveraged. I think you’re comparing apples and oranges. You can’t just open every drawer, put them all in one, and put yourself in there.
What makes people dissatisfied is the health aspect that reminds everyone that savings, returns, and interest are not life – but all that has already been mentioned.

On the other hand, it really seems that most people are tired of work by 63.

I’ll tell you why. Because you didn’t really ask, right?
WE are tired of working longer than 40 or rather 45 years because then it’s simply enough. Health-wise and mentally. The new generation, to which you belong, the ones with fairly good salaries and office jobs, have their butts pampered way too much in comparison. But that’s not the real problem. There is simply no social thinking and living anymore, and therefore this generation says: not with me anymore either. You’re welcome to change it, but none of you does.
Apart from that, I know many colleagues who have already extended twice when they have to...

Maybe you can’t imagine it at 30 or 40 or 45,

Exactly, you as a 36-year-old have no idea. And we’ve explained that to you as well.

Those were then the people with compulsions for whom retirement at 63 really would have ended in poverty.

You watch too much Crash TV and compare yourself, that’s called identity loss. Apples and oranges comparison.

Since I now have 29,780 posts and want to end my existence here at 30,000, I am stepping back from this hamster wheel.

I don’t think anything up to loans of 81 is relaxing at all.

Well, that’s exactly what I’m trying to make clear to you—that you are absurdly unrelaxed. I’m almost a million in debt and sleep like a baby. And you’re shitting your pants over 10 or 20 years.

That’s the sure path to poverty in old age.

Nonsense! Why? The almost one million in debt is balanced by over a million in value.

Remember, you can’t eat from a house, buy clothes, or travel with it.

No, I do that with the income, which keeps increasing while the debt remains nominally the same (minus repayments) and even decreases in value. Remember, what you repay earlier is worth more than what you repay later. That’s all the interest rates represent.

A house only means living rent-free.

First, that’s not true; second, “only”?!?

You still pay for maintenance, a new heating system, a new roof, etc.

Oh, and the tenant doesn’t pay for that? — yes, but then none of it belongs to them.

Surely on average, maintenance and costs for heating, roof & co. are less than rent, but still you just need corresponding liquid assets to maintain the house and then maybe treat yourself to a trip here, a restaurant there, and so on.

Man, what a sentence. For a smaller apartment than my house now, I’d have to pay about 30% more than my mortgage payment. So repayment and rent! Everything else is easily covered. I’m telling you, you can keep looking calmly at everyday life! As I said, just put your savings rate into ETFs. But don’t pay everything off in 7 years or whenever that was. That’s completely irrational.