How much land and house can we afford?

Hello again,

@ Bauexperte: I’m a bit confused. We initially didn’t plan the attic conversion in Variant 1, but rather the accommodation of the mentioned rooms within the 140 m2 living space on the ground floor & attic.

I think you have no idea how quickly 140 sqm gets planned? By the way, are we talking here about 140 sqm living area or floor space?

Do you think your living/dining room has maybe a maximum of 30 sqm pure living area after deducting HAR and utility room as well as kitchen and shower bathroom; I also wonder how you want to fit 5 rooms in the attic?

We would leave the attic conversion open for later or use it for storage.

Then I would still have the stairs installed to the attic now. Doing that later is quite a hassle and causes a lot of mess.

We didn’t really plan a garage (no car!) but a carport for the bikes. Doesn’t that make sense?

That is – as the Rhinelander says – "six of one, half a dozen of the other". A quality carport is not cheaper than a comparable prefabricated garage.

For Variant 2 with cellar, the house itself should be significantly smaller, so not a bungalow with 70 m2 ground floor plus basement and useless attic, but 50 m2 living cellar plus 50 m2 ground floor plus a few and forty sqm attic.

Maybe I repeat myself – but with 140 sqm it’s already tight without an attic, at 50 sqm/floor you can throw your room program overboard straight away.

Take graph paper and draw the house body; 1 cm = 1.00 m wall. The current normal outer wall thickness is 36 cm if it is to be a plastered building. Inner walls 11.5 cm or 17 cm, depending on structural requirements; a stairwell requires at least 2.5 sqm plus landing. You will – even as a layman – quickly realize that you either have to change your room program or abandon the variant with cellar if 50 sqm/floor is desired.

And/or do I understand you correctly that with a total living space requirement of 140 m2 a only *slightly* smaller house plus converted attic would still be more recommendable? Why?

Because that would be the most economical form? Because the living climate in a concrete cellar is not the best climate? Because 50 sqm/floor will never be enough to meet your space wishes?

My sister lives in Berlin; she and my brother-in-law bought an older terraced house some years ago. This terraced house is – as was often the case in the 1950s – built with a partial cellar of 30 sqm. I can gladly ask them to take pictures of their cellar so that you with your own eyes see that your vision of 50 sqm/floor is off? A bit of hallway and stairwell also have to be taken into account...

In the first non-binding conversation with the seller, he told us that a cellar as a living cellar is also cheaper than purely above-ground living space.

Then he is a newbie or should quit his profession.

They rather indicate that cellar living space, once everything is finished, in the end does not differ significantly in price from other living space. Right?

Yes; it is rather more expensive.

Rhenish regards

Many thanks to both of you for the clarifications. I can already see that the original idea without a basement will probably work better after all. We are still thinking further about the attic and will definitely get back to you soon with floor plan ideas.

@ Bauexperte: The 140m2 referred to the pure living space and with a room layout approximately like the Mare Lots 139 (google queries).

Best regards,

Kazazi