How much land and house can we afford?

Hello,
I also think the house will be too small. Under 150m², you probably won’t be able to fit that many rooms properly. The house alone will probably cost just over 200,000 – realistic in the East, I think.
Here is my very personal assessment and some numbers based on roughly what it was like for us:

Connection for new water line 20,000
That sounds like a lot. For over 70m of minor connection we paid €12,500. The connection inside the house was included (see below).
Surveyor 3,500
Also sounds quite high. We paid €1,800 for ours. However, we contracted it ourselves.
Utility connections (water, electricity, telecom) 6,000
Water 2x?
Building permit 700
Realistic
Notary approx. 2 % 1,552
Note increase for larger house, etc.
Property transfer tax 5 % 3,881
Ok
Authority costs (land register entries) approx. 1 % 776
Ok
Walls wallpapering/painting 10,000
We do it ourselves and have calculated: €2,000 should be possible.
Floors 10,000
Ok, a matter of taste
Reserves 10,000
Kitchen 10,000
Ok
Outdoor facilities 10,000
I think that’s too tight, more like 15-20k

The following points don’t appear but are often necessary:
- Soil report (+1300)
- Construction road or firm ground for vehicles (+2300)
- Telephone (?)
- Lots of tools and construction materials for possible own work. There’s always something, even if it’s just the broom. (+2000)

Here are some little extras that cost us a lot more:
Stairs: in the performance description planned at €3500 - we pay €8500
Front door: in the performance description planned at €3000 - we pay €5000

Others we included right away in the contract, which results in higher house prices. Here are items included for us that you might want to think about as well:
- large sliding door between kitchen and living room (approx. +600)
- lightning conductor (+900)
- towel radiator (+500)
- house raised 50cm (depending on terrain profile) (+3100)
- outside stairs (+500)
- large shower (1.4m x 1m) / bathroom sampling (+1000)
- well (+1000)
- mushroom head locking at the windows (+3000)
- chimney (?)
- barrier-free shower (2x) (+0 – but not always the case)

Additionally, these costs are planned, which we want to retrofit later. Maybe you want to include them right away:
- fireplace (+6500)
- garage (+15,000)
- terrace (+? – own work)
- house entrance roof (+1000?)

Often tiles are a big cost factor, because they are set too low in the house price. We removed them from the contract and provided them ourselves, so we stay within the house price limit. The same goes for the electrics. We did them ourselves from the start and saved an estimated €10,000 in additional costs. (Ok, my husband is a computer whiz – no house has seen that many cables yet. ;))

Best regards!

Many thanks again to everyone who has already helped us here with experiences and ideas. Happy New Year to all!

Since the further considerations, including initial financing discussions, have been successful in the meantime and we have evaluated the previous information, we are approaching the more detailed floor plan design (for which I will probably open another thread in the appropriate subforum – right?).

However, one open question is still on my mind, and I would greatly appreciate further opinions and experiences on this:

We now assume a space requirement of about 140 m2 of living area, in which we want to accommodate the following areas and rooms: cooking-living-dining, utility room & storeroom, guest bathroom with shower, master bedroom, 3 children's rooms, study/guest room.

As far as we can currently oversee the location, we could barely manage this on the available 10x10 m building plot with one and a half floors, for example by planning a dormer in the attic.

However, the price will be tight, and since we have now heard more often that one should think three times about giving up a basement, I wonder whether it wouldn't be more sensible and perhaps also cheaper to build the house significantly smaller and with a residential basement instead?

For example, instead of about 140 m2 on around 70 m2 ground area *without* a basement (distributed on living-eating-cooking, guest bath, guest room and utility room/storeroom on the ground floor as well as 4 rooms plus bathroom in the attic) only about 50 m2 ground area *with* a residential basement (e.g., as a raised basement); which should then accommodate the utility room/storeroom and two rooms (e.g., child 1 + study/guest).

The total living area should remain roughly the same or even be slightly larger with the basement option, right? And if it is true that basement space is overall cheaper to build than above-ground living space, wouldn't that then also be cheaper? Or is that an oversimplification and, if so, why? Or are there other disadvantages to consider with the basement option?

What are your experiences or thoughts on this?

Many thanks again,

Kazazi

So... 50m² of floor space is tight. The staircase will be a heavily used part of the building. One children's room downstairs, 2 children's rooms upstairs - doesn't one child possibly feel pushed aside? Where will the bathrooms go? As for the basement, basement costs, and so on: that really depends a lot on the ground. People sometimes say: a basement is cheaper than above-ground living space, but that usually refers to utility basements on favorable plots... It looks different with a living basement. I wouldn't build without a basement, but a living basement only on a hillside if the basement is blessed with plenty of daylight on the living side anyway.

Good evening,

As far as we can currently see the situation, we could just about manage that on the 10x10m building plot available to us with one and a half floors, for example by planning a gable in the attic.

That is not necessary if a reasonable knee wall and roof pitch are available. Then you can lead the stairs into the attic and expand the space.

And if it is true that basement space is ultimately cheaper to build than above-ground living space, wouldn't that also be cheaper?

I don't know who – apart from maybe elderly people – keeps putting this nonsense out into the world? In earlier times a basement was absolutely necessary because the fruits of the kitchen garden had to be stored; that began with the early potatoes and ended with leeks in late autumn. Nowadays, a utility basement is the most expensive storage space there is.

If you look at current – newly built – basements, they generally serve the house connections, the laundry area, and otherwise for storing things that no one needs anymore but the owners do not want to part with. From my point of view, a basement only makes sense if it is used as living and/or working space; especially on sloping sites. With walls enclosed on four sides by soil – especially in concrete basements – I would not want to live in it.

In your case, the calculation for Berlin looks as follows:

Single-family house, 140 sqm living space as Kfw 70 on BP: EUR 189,000
Attic expansion: approx. EUR 15,000
Finished garage 3 x 9: EUR 11,000
Additional building costs: EUR 35,000-40,000
Painting work in EL: EUR 10,000
Floor coverings in EL: EUR 10,000
Outdoor facilities in EL: EUR 10,000
Reserves in EL: EUR 10,000

All in approx. EUR 295,000

or:

Single-family house, 140 sqm living space as Kfw 70 ground floor + basement: EUR 210,000
Finished garage 3 x 9: EUR 11,000
Additional building costs: EUR 35,000-40,000
Painting work in EL: EUR 10,000
Floor coverings in EL: EUR 10,000
Outdoor facilities in EL: EUR 10,000
Reserves in EL: EUR 10,000

All in approx. EUR 301,000 and you have a useless attic (except for expensive storage space). That is about as sensible as a utility basement used just as storage space. In this example you also live in the basement and have to provide means for slope protection if children or guests are to have access to daylight through a light well.

Why don’t you have a non-binding conversation with a seller/architect?

Rhenish regards

Thank you very much for the quick answers, it’s really great how fast this forum works.

@ Irgendwoabaier: Bathrooms would be planned for the basement variant on the ground floor (guest WC with shower) and attic floor (family bathroom). For child 1, I could imagine that he would like to live in the basement, but a parents’ bedroom would also be possible. Why does the stairwell and 50m2 become tighter than with 70m2 floor space and only one staircase to the attic? The “lost” space is the living areas that are supposed to be in the basement, right?

@ Bauexperte: I’m a bit confused. Expansion of the attic was not initially planned for variant 1, but rather to accommodate the mentioned rooms in the 140 m2 living space on the ground and attic floors. We would leave attic expansion open for later or use it for storage. We didn’t really plan a garage (no car!) but rather a carport for the bikes. Does that not make sense?

For variant 2 with basement, the house itself should be significantly smaller, so not a bungalow with 70 m2 ground floor plus basement and useless attic, but 50 m2 living basement plus 50 m2 ground floor plus a few and forty m2 attic.

From your point of view, what argues against this variant? And/or do I understand you correctly that for a total living space requirement of 140m2 a *slightly* smaller house (maybe like the initially considered few and sixty m2 floor space ground & attic) plus developed attic would be even more recommendable? Why?

In the first non-binding conversation with the seller, he told us that basements used as living space are also cheaper than purely above-ground living space. The next meeting is next week, hopefully it will become more concrete then. I was interested in your experiences beforehand. They seem to indicate that basement living space, once fully finished, does not differ significantly in price from other living spaces overall. Right? Or are there other experiences here?

By the way, the plot is level. Besides the possibly achievable savings, I would also be interested in the basement variant because more of the plot (575m2) remains as a garden? Have others of you had similar considerations for living in the basement instead of larger ground floor + attic space?

Best regards,

Kazazi

Hello,
The child in the basement will be happy when the next toilet is one floor above. And when the family bathroom is even two floors higher.
The layout of the ground floor into guest bathroom, kitchen, living, dining area + entrance area + stairwell will be exciting if the total area is too limited. Personally, I like to have a vestibule behind the front door where the wardrobe can also be accommodated, or the access to the guest bathroom. Of course, all this takes up space – will the 50m² on the ground floor still be enough then?
The next problem arises due to the need for daylight in the basement. So a larger slope is necessary, maybe it even has to be cut back on two sides. We planned the basement ceiling just under 80 cm above ground level – which means raising the terrace, sloping downwards towards the garden, sloping further / steeper towards the basement (it’s only about one corner of the house) to get enough daylight into my workshop. We deliberately did not plan a living basement, so the basement only contains building services, workshop, storage room. The daylight requirement for a living basement would not have been feasible without raising the house even higher, which would then cause problems with the setback distances to the neighbors.