House from the eighties - money pit?

Even if you don't know how big the whole thing is supposed to be, and how many square meters you are planning, but 280k including land will already be more than ambitious.

I think you misunderstood: You probably interpreted that for 280k including land it should be possible to get a new house; but she probably meant with the prefabricated house a finished house, namely this one, and with 180k for the land with finished house and 100k for modernization altogether 280k for the house "afterwards."

Would you hire an expert now and then go into price negotiations or first ask if there is anything to be done about the price at all?

I would forget the house quickly; even more houses were built in the 80s; many with open fireplaces, and also many where you can lovingly look past brown tiles. This chance will surely come again, only better then.

The owner is retired and already moved into a more central apartment, but still has a lot of furniture and other stuff in the house.

That is actually another warning sign: vacancy harms any building fabric. Vacancy and yet still full of junk is an indication of many surprises regarding the condition. But you don’t have to actively part with this house: in such cases, price expectations usually remain reliably incompatible.

that he tries to talk down your arguments since you are not an expert. Those things are noticed quickly.

The joke is good. No layman can be less professional than a realtor. If a realtor-type person had brains, they would have become a notary. So much for remembering.

I think you misunderstood each other: You probably interpreted that for 280k including the land there should be a new house; but she probably meant a finished house with the prefab house, namely this one, and with 180k for the land with the finished house and 100k for modernization, a total of 280k for the house "afterwards".

No, she was referring to the bait offers that you find in abundance on Immoscout (planned houses).

However, often a professional flushing and system separation with plastic pipes is sufficient, so that they themselves do not have to be touched.

We had also seen that this exists. If that were possible, we would be very happy. Of course, we do not have unlimited money available, but if the realtor comes down a bit, the price should work out overall.

In my region, I could give a realistic price off the cuff.

I would be interested.

Often or almost always the location and the plot are paid for in the existing building.

That is not worth much at all, just under 380 sqm, the standard land value here is 100 €/sqm. However, for exactly that reason, we would actually prefer an existing property, because we don't necessarily want a tiny garden and neighbors who can look over our fence.

Did I read and forget something regarding facade insulation?

No, we haven't dealt with that at all yet. It’s becoming more and more. :-(

We will definitely keep looking around and possibly also consider building a house. According to the renovation cost estimate, we would have to invest 130k. Even if it were "only" 100k, we could already get a prefabricated house including the land for 280k...

I think you misunderstood: you probably interpreted that a new house should be possible for 280k including land;

No, it is meant exactly as I understood it...

We haven't dealt with the topic at all yet and have only seen the "lock-in offers" (213k including land).

The tiles on the terrace, the garage door, the garden, the walls, etc., we would enjoy designing all that ourselves.

Yes, something like that can be done well little by little

I would do the second inspection directly with the expert.

Would you rather hire an expert now and then go into price negotiations or first ask if there is anything to be done on the price at all?

No second inspection without expertise. You also need something in hand for price negotiations. If Mr. Expert doesn’t find anything serious – all the better, then you can go on the offensive.
I would make it a condition for a second inspection that the furniture is removed from the walls.
I think it's outrageous how nowadays a property still full of old junk can be put into the offer. Greetings to the realtor, if he thinks this house is a sure thing, then he should reject your offer....
A miracle that you can see yourselves living in it

Vacancy damages any building fabric. Vacancy and still full of junk is an indication of many more surprises regarding the fabric.

That’s how it is – also a price depressant!
And if it’s not this house, then it will be another one. I once searched your inventory in your community F. on Immonet and co, unfortunately didn’t find it. But there are comparable houses, and if it takes a bit longer.

Is there an offer on the WWW? Do you have an ID number or the name from the realtor???

Edit/P.s.
... And get the heating bills from the last inhabited years: older women keep it cozy, that should be considered (or they get stingy *ahem*)

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By the way: my house from the 70s was definitely not a money pit – but that is no placeholder for other properties

At least the houses that are for sale and were built after 2000 cost less than 300K. However, they are in neighboring cities, and unfortunately, we do not want to move there.