House Building Forum - Would you buy or build a house again?

: it’s not that I don’t understand your opinion. But I would like to point out: try today as a normal customer (layman) in this field to get credible, honest advice without a) being made to feel that you have too many demands because you don’t want to build a standard cookie-cutter house b) signing immediately. We once had a conversation where the MANAGING DIRECTOR of this quite regionally well-known store said in the initial meeting: "70% sign with me in the first meeting, 30% in the second, and whoever hasn’t signed then is out of luck. And frankly, I don’t really like young customers like you. I prefer renovating old buildings for pensioners; they don’t compare prices online beforehand, they just pay" - that was certainly an extreme example, but I am not generalizing when I tell you we had this experience in ALL conversations. And why? Because they don’t need us as customers... the business is booming anyway... either no offers were sent, or we sat together and appointments were completely unprepared, or the discussed plans looked completely different, or we were presented with cookie-cutter houses with the comment "I like this better, wouldn’t you rather buy that, it’s much better than a custom build," etc...

There surely are (I hope) still honest advisors who really have the customer’s interest at heart and not just their profit. But we and our future neighbors have never met any. Our experience across the board, sadly, is that whether it’s a prefabricated or solid house builder, a small company or a big one... if you want to buy a house as a layman, you’re lost. No wonder so many cases of botched construction come up... when I see what’s sometimes in the contracts... someone who has no clue, who signs in good faith and relies on TRUST in the advisor, is hopelessly lost. Now you could say: yes, contracts must be reviewed. Exactly what we did. And what came out? We were always led to believe that they are super transparent and honest, no fine print in the contract, and they totally rely on transparency and honesty. After the review we had to sit down because we didn’t expect what came out. Surely 10 clauses declared invalid or warned against by courts. Advance payment regulations, limitation of warranty, no right of withdrawal, arbitration expert regulations, just a few points. When we confronted them about wanting these changed, a storm of outrage broke out and the otherwise friendly, honest construction partner turned into a (sorry) a**hole!

If we hadn’t deeply familiarized ourselves with the subject for 2 years, we wouldn’t have been able to meet anyone at eye level. And that would have gone completely wrong.

So yes, there are definitely really bad customers who only exploit others. They exist everywhere, unfortunately. They enrich themselves with your knowledge and move on. But honestly... as a layman you have practically no other choice than to learn from meeting to meeting. Only we were absolutely ready to build here. We were deeply into the subject, initially had a great relationship (the buddy tour), and the longer the talks went on, the more trust was destroyed. We were promised many things that were not kept. We were told they would be on vacation for one week, but it turned out to be three. Since October we have been pushing to finally get to signing, then urgently requested in writing to finalize by the end of November because the bank could no longer guarantee the interest rate, which was completely ignored by no response for 8 days, forcing us to break off negotiations. Then WE overcame our pride and called and said it would be a shame to part ways so close to the end, met again, brought peace-offering cake, continued negotiations, and in the end we were accused of wanting everything at the last minute and blamed that our gut feeling is now wrong. That makes me ask, where is the self-reflection. Service wasteland Germany, welcome home!

I think this shows the problem I recently noticed.

You want a transparent offer to have (cost) certainty before making the biggest investment of your life. This means a lot of preliminary work for the provider, with the result that the contract may not be concluded. It makes sense that the motivation for this is rather low. But without this effort from the provider, I personally wouldn’t even get to the point where I can say yes or no.

EXACTLY, that’s what it failed on for us too. In the end, it was like a barter... here a window removed, but then an inverter added (which suddenly was needed for KfW 70). Here a 300x90 window removed, but a 300x232 window added = €2,300 extra. When you then ask: what is that made up of, you get dirty looks and accusations, as if we think we are being cheated. Sorry, professional is something else. If I want my customers to sign, I have to give them a good feeling and cannot insult them (which happened at times). And then get pissed off when the gut feeling at the end no longer fits with signing.

In retrospect, I would buy a house and renovate it again, and I am also fairly certain that I will do it again.

Whether the right decision was made here is, in my opinion, difficult to assess. If the general contractor cannot coherently explain contract contents/changes, that is of course not good. However, I also cannot quite understand if an eight-month decision-making process fails because of 10,000€. In your financing over 22 years, that corresponds to roughly a monthly additional cost of €40 or about one year longer term. Letting the construction project fail because of that sounds a bit odd to me; I would probably have ended the negotiations beforehand.

Best regards
Dirk Grafe

Hello,

But I would like to point out: try today as a normal customer (layman) in this field to get a credible, honest consultation without, a) being made to feel that you have too many demands because you don’t want to build a standard model house

Politely say thank you and leave.

b) signing immediately.

Write it off as a learning experience, say thank you and leave.

We once had a conversation where the MANAGING DIRECTOR of this quite regionally known company said during the initial meeting: "70% of my clients sign in the first meeting, 30% in the second meeting, and whoever hasn’t signed by then is out of luck. And anyway ...

And why did you listen to that till the end?

And why? Because they don’t need us as customers... the company is booming anyway... either offers were not sent, or we sat together and appointments were totally unprepared, or discussed plans looked completely different, or we were presented with standard houses with the statement "well, I like this one, don’t you want to buy this one instead, it’s much better than custom-built," etc...

No, the company is not "booming" everywhere right now; it is booming with low-cost providers. Reputable providers are only handling a manageable increase in orders; as of the end of Q3, there wasn’t a customer boom everywhere. The non-existent housing situation caused by the refugee influx has been tying up many crafts businesses for a long time. Therefore, I am more than curious how your individual trade contracting will develop next year.

... if you want to buy a house as a layman, you’re lost.

Ask yourself quite neutrally why you were not active _before_ starting talks in forums, reading construction diaries, visiting new development areas? Why did you not inform yourself neutrally? Did you consult a building advisor?

No wonder there are so many botched construction TV shows...

Whoever believes their content also believes in Santa Claus

Now you could say: yes, contracts must be reviewed. That’s exactly what we did.

May I ask who you commissioned for the review?

If we hadn’t deeply studied the subject for 2 years, we would not have been able to meet anyone on equal footing. And that would have gone mercilessly wrong.

That’s why I keep repeating – no, I’m not a pastor – that laymen should seek and commission help! Naturally, that costs one or the other nice-to-have.

But honestly... as a layman, you basically have no other choice but to learn from one conversation to the next.

D’accord.

What I criticize is the lack of respect + honest dealings. If everyone assumes the same prerequisites, your gut also responds without having to put in 2 years of preliminary work. I am not writing that for the first time either: if your gut says "No," politely say thank you and move on.

Only we were absolutely ready to build here. We were deep into the subject, initially had a great relationship (the buddy tour), and the longer the talks went on, the more trust was destroyed. Many things were promised to us that were not kept.

By then, I would have said goodbye long ago and definitely would not have worked towards a contract.

Then WE got over our egos and called to say that it would be a shame to part ways so close to the end, sat down together again, brought cake as a peace offering, negotiated further, and in the end, we were accused of wanting everything at the last minute and blamed for our gut feeling now being wrong. I ask myself, where is the self-reflection. Service desert Germany, here is your home!

THAT is your perspective; it may be accurate, certainly selective, and in any case subjective; I am really tempted to ask for the price at the bottom right. You must have long given this salesperson the feeling that they can TAKE ADVANTAGE of you So why then do you expect the impossible and get frustrated when he also clearly shows his true face (which you probably should have recognized long ago)?

Anyway – I wish you much luck on your next attempt and a better choice with your temporary partners. But please don’t paint all salespeople/providers with the same brush; there are many more good to very good ones nationwide, as I know from accompanying advice. They just don’t appear spectacularly in forums or even in the press

Rhenish greetings

Looking back, I would buy and renovate a house again and I am also fairly sure that I will do it again.

In my opinion, it is difficult to judge whether the right decision was made here. If the general contractor cannot coherently explain contract contents/changes, that is of course not good. However, if an 8-month decision-making process fails over €10,000, I can't quite understand that either. With your financing over 22 years, that corresponds to roughly €40 per month in additional costs or about 1 year longer term. Letting the construction project fail because of that sounds a bit odd to me; I probably would have ended negotiations earlier.

Best regards
Dirk Grafe

You are right, that's why it didn't fail because of €10,000. In the end, we were even €30,000 over plan. It was the sum of accusations, a bitter aftertaste, additional costs that could not be understood, the statement that certain things would be covered by the contractor (e.g. surveyor, by the way standard in the construction performance specification) but were then passed on to us, many promises that were never kept, and so on. All of this led to trust being lost along the way. We probably should have broken off much earlier as a matter of course. Absolutely clear. But when your gut (uneasy feeling) and your head (great interest rates, what are the alternatives) are playing roulette in your head, it's not so simple. In the end, we had a different opinion almost hourly. So it didn't fail because of €10,000, but because of the sum of the parts.

First of all, I said that there are certainly good consultants, but we haven’t met any.
The subjective view of things that you accuse me of is not something to be denied even to you.
It doesn’t matter anyway. Everyone has their own perspective, as does the general contractor (GU).

And sure, you could have pulled the emergency brake earlier, which we did... only we found it a shame to have "wasted" 8 months and thought everyone deserves a second chance. We didn’t expect it to continue like this.

And maybe things look different for you. But in BW and Bavaria, business is booming everywhere. That’s just how it is.
Some told us they have a one-year lead time. And I’m not talking about big companies, but about reputable, local providers. You’re welcome to believe that.
And yes, there are many GUs. But only a few with a somewhat good reputation who also build custom. When you’ve gone through the chain, you reach the point where you ask yourself: is this really it? Do you just have to get through this because there are no alternatives? And that’s where we eventually came... where we thought, close your eyes and get through it. But do you sign contracts worth hundreds of thousands of euros like that? I wouldn’t.

Anyone who believes that the build botch shows are fictional is welcome to come here... here stand some construction ruins of a well-known, former GU. While being loyal to one’s own profession, one should also open up a bit to the reality outside.

Just as not all consultants are bad, not all builders are naive and demand miracles!

Regarding the consultation, we went to the consumer center to review the construction service description and to a specialist lawyer for construction law for the contract. We also sought advice from the Association of Private Builders and the Builders Protection Association.
I think you can’t do more. And I believe we were simply uncomfortably well informed for the GU, which he didn’t like.
He just didn’t get a naive client who simply signs the contract blank, in good faith and conscience.

From the moment we were presented with the contract and asked for a conversation on various points, the mood turned extremely frosty.
That’s the rule, already 500 customers have signed the same contract, even the public sector (we all know that public customers HAVE THEIR OWN contracts and never sign on company paper). Honestly... who would have immediately thrown in the towel after 7 months of talks and work on plans, after already talking to 8 others but not getting nearly as far? It’s logical that you first try to find a consensus. But when well over 8 weeks result in nothing but wearing down and quarreling, eventually your gut says no.

And why did I listen to the talk about preferring to build with seniors? Because I simply couldn’t escape this last sentence during the farewell. Can you predict what the conversation partner will say next? I can’t.