Zinspoker - Long term or short term?

And France is speeding up full throttle in debt... but hey, that's the problem of the next generation. It's just dumb if you have children ...

Caps are madness. The population keeps quiet at first, yes, but who pays for that? It will be a rude awakening!

You cannot permanently shield the population from reality, keep everything politically at a full-coverage style, even if that has become extremely fashionable.

Apart from that, artificial caps prevent necessary behavioral changes on both small and large scales. The French are massively dependent on Russia due to their outdated nuclear energy, which dominates the world market for necessary radioactive materials. At the same time, in F, they heat with night storage heaters, meaning electricity is wasted 1:1 instead of 1:4 as with WP.
The state is incurring massive debt for consumption costs instead of for the energy transition.
This cap therefore contributes zero to solving any problems. A small band-aid for the heating season, nothing more. And afterwards?

Hi! This is my first post here, greetings to everyone! Last year we completed the full renovation of our house, a 120-year-old rubble stone house with thick walls, 220 sqm of living space. Sandstone, no matter how thick, is considered quasi-zero insulation in the energy calculation. The point of my posting: I doubt a bit the 200,000€ that are thrown around here for an energy renovation. We installed interior insulation made of wood fiber boards, 12 cm thick. In addition, we insulated with an above-roof (6cm wood fiber) and between-rafter insulation (20cm mineral wool) as well as the top floor ceiling (8cm mineral wool). I’ll leave out the insulation of the floor, since you want to protect the parquet. With a lot of own work, this cost about 50,000€. Leave out the above-roof insulation and find a way to insulate the floor (possibly with blown insulation? Basement ceiling?), then you’ll come to the same result. Since the windows are going to be replaced anyway, you have to get to the interior walls and reveals anyway. The provider of our interior insulation also offers a wall heating system, maybe that would be interesting? Ceiling heating might also be possible. Last year we also installed new floors with underfloor heating, screed, and a heat pump. These works, fully outsourced, cost about 40,000€, we got back 9,000€ from BAFA. I only regret not buying the photovoltaic system right away when we were at it anyway. Oh yes: 220 sqm, fully heated, including household electricity, costs 250€ monthly. 9,000 kWh per year. But it can certainly be improved. And life is fantastic. No cold feet, no radiators on the walls. And still loads of old building charm. If I were you, I would calculate everything carefully once again and also get offers. The comfort of having it done properly once, instead of having to keep fixing it, is also worth something.

Hi! This is my first post here, greetings to everyone! Last year we completed the complete renovation of our house, a 120-year-old rubble stone house with thick walls, 220sqm living area. Sandstone, no matter how thick, is considered almost zero insulation in the energy calculation. The point of my post: I doubt a bit the 200,000€ being thrown around here for an energy refurbishment. We installed internal insulation made of wood fiber boards, 12 cm thick. In addition, a roof insulation (6cm wood fiber) and insulation between rafters (20cm mineral wool) as well as the top floor ceiling (8cm mineral wool) were insulated. I leave out the floor insulation since you want to protect the parquet. This cost about 50,000€ with a lot of own work. Leave out the roof insulation and look for a way to insulate the floor (possibly by blown-in insulation? Basement ceiling?), then you end up at the same amount. Since the windows will be replaced anyway, you have to get to the interior walls and reveals anyway. The supplier of our internal insulation also offers a wall heating system, maybe that would be interesting? Ceiling heating might also be possible. Last year we also installed new floors with underfloor heating, screed, and a heat pump. These jobs, completely contracted out, were about 40,000€, we got 9,000€ back from BAFA. I only regret not buying the photovoltaic system at the same time when we were at it anyway. Oh yes: 220sqm, completely heated, including household electricity amounts to 250€ monthly. 9,000 kWh per year. But it can certainly get better. And it is fantastic to live in. No cold feet, no radiators on the walls. And still full of old building charm. If I were you, I would calculate everything exactly again and also get offers. The comfort of having done it right once instead of having to do it repeatedly is also worth something.

Thanks, finally a reasonable post again. Fear eats the forum...

50,000€ is actually also the amount the energy advisor calculated for us for the façade insulation with hemp (his recommendation) as well as the new windows. I also consider 200k here to be complete nonsense. You would really have to reliably save 700€ heating costs every month to break even over a lifetime. The roof and the top floor ceiling have already been insulated, so that is out anyway. I will insulate the basement ceiling with my father in own work, as well as the insulation of the radiator niches. Since the basement is fully developed, it won’t be too complicated. We were actually advised against touching the heating system, as currently no heating engineer can be found in the region anyway and materials are sold out for months. We have therefore planned to supplement the oil heating with a heat pump for 2024/25, or another system: who knows what technology will come by then?

If I completely seal the place from top to bottom, I end up with the sterile atmosphere of soulless new-build bunkers

I partly agree with you here. I am currently starting to build such a "soulless new-build bunker." I will also do my utmost to ensure that the house gets its soul as quickly as possible after moving in. It will be difficult but definitely doable ;). Why am I building new and not buying an Art Nouveau villa? Because I simply don’t have the necessary cash for it. And it’s not about the purchase price, but about the maintenance costs. Of course, old parquet floors (maybe even mosaic), high ceilings, massive wooden doors, etc. are architecturally incomparable to the GU catalog houses, that’s undeniable. Living in such an old villa is something you (especially nowadays) have to be able to afford. I think that the 5-person family wants to sell the house cheaply for exactly that reason. From what you describe, you can afford the house — so it is no problem. You just have to plan for higher heating costs and that’s it. ...and please, no plastic windows with shutters, but I’m sure you already know that. Good luck

I partly agree with you here. I am currently starting to build such a "soulless new bunker." I will also do my best to make sure the house gains its soul as quickly as possible after moving in. It will be difficult, but definitely doable ;). Why am I building new and not buying a Jugendstil villa? Because I simply don’t have the necessary cash for that. And it’s not about the purchase price, but the maintenance costs. Sure, old parquet floorboards (maybe even mosaic), high ceilings, solid wooden doors, etc. are architecturally not comparable to the catalog houses from general contractors, that is undisputed. Living in such an old villa is something you have to be able to afford (especially nowadays). I think the 5-person family wants to sell the house so cheaply exactly for that reason. From your descriptions, you can afford the house – so that’s no problem. You just have to plan for higher heating costs, and that’s fine. ...and please, don’t install plastic windows with roller shutters, but I’m sure you already know that. Good luck

That was of course phrased a bit provocatively to balance out some of the old building bashing here ;-) But since I basically spent all my free time in model home parks in 2019, I can’t shake that feeling. A young existing property that meets modern energy standards does not exist on the market. They are either all too small or built as cheaply as possible (standard prefab houses with the cheapest fittings). Building new would also only be possible with extreme compromises. We could also move into a nice maisonette for 900 euros cold rent. Aside from the fact that there is hardly a bigger price bubble than the price for new builds in the last 6-8 months: At the beginning of 2019 we planned a house, fixed price 550,000 €, unfortunately we didn’t get the plot. The house was supposed to cost 890,000 € in June 2022... The maintenance costs must be beyond 1000 € after installing new windows and external insulation for the extra cost to pay off over 30 years. I understand that many are afraid of high maintenance costs. You have to be able to live with that. Until 2021, I drove a 2007 Benz S600 – is that reasonable? No! Did it bring me joy every day? Absolutely! Sure, I could have driven a VW Polo and had only 10% of the maintenance costs, but I only live for a very limited time on this piece of rock. And since our financial situation will improve dramatically in the next 2-3 years, the question of maintenance costs basically hardly matters to us. Since the move is planned for April 2023, we are of course a bit concerned about winter 2023, but who knows what else will happen by then? And by the way, this was not about the question of how extensively the house should be renovated, how energy prices will develop, or whether it’s better to build new, but whether I pay off the place all at once in 12-15 years or pay it off slowly.