Toilet from €27.90 to €500 - objective information on the price difference?

The delivery boundary is clearly separated, everything behind/under the tiles is to be done by the installer.

So you are now doing exactly what I implemented today as well. The absolutely right decision, in my opinion.

Something in the range of 30-50% surcharge in specialty stores for advice and display is absolutely okay – but not 300%. Especially not a percentage surcharge. Whether the fitting costs €80 or €800 – the installation and display effort is the same.

When you build turnkey with a one-stop-shop company, as very, very many do, it roughly goes like this. The general contractor doesn't have gas-water... not themselves. They subcontract that out. The subcontractors have to offer a sharp price. So our sanitary and water and heating contractor gets 21 for the entire construction. For that, he is supposed to provide all the water installation, the underfloor heating, the solar thermal system, the Junkers condensing boiler, two toilet bowls, two washbasins, two outdoor water taps. One shower. As I learned from a friend who is a heating and sanitation master, that is tight. Not a business you stretch for. Something just has to go wrong and you lose money. So what has to happen? For it to be worth it? Guess....

When building turnkey with such an all-in-one operation, as many do, it goes something like this. The general contractor has gas-water...not themselves. They subcontract it. The subcontractors have to offer a sharp price. So our sanitary, water, and heating contractor gets 21 for the entire build. They are supposed to deliver the entire water installation, the underfloor heating, the solar thermal system, the Junkers condensing boiler, two toilets, two sinks, two outdoor water taps. One shower. As I heard from a friend who is a master heating and sanitary technician, that's tight. Not a business you stretch yourself for. Something just has to go wrong and you end up losing money. So what has to happen then? To make it worthwhile? Guess....

Uh, and why is it the end customer's problem if the company bids on jobs at a price that allegedly doesn't pay off?

I am an entrepreneur too. I don’t submit offers with the intention of later relieving the customer of money through a salami tactic and vague arguments ("Well, everything in the bathroom has to be exact to the millimeter, ooh, are you afraid!!"). That’s unprofessional. If a client wants a certain service for sum X and it doesn’t pay off, I simply don’t submit an offer or point out that certain standards need to be upheld.

The only problem is when competitors participate in such tenders. In the long run, though, that (fortunately) leads to nothing.

I agree with you. It was just an attempt to explain why they almost always demand these moon prices, not to excuse it. Only the reason why the model works so well especially with electrical and sanitary is clear. Almost no one wants standard, especially since you can set the standard so low that in 99.9% of cases it doesn’t stay at that. That’s a given. Like the base Golf at 18,000,-, which is only ordered like that by nursing services. But then, that’s the point, you are at the mercy of the subcontractor chosen by the builder. That’s the thing... with him you have to buy, or you take standard, or you build it yourself. We just got lucky there, our sanitary company is one I know, and he also wants something from me professionally from time to time and he also otherwise works for us... that’s a basis for a prosperous cooperation. Although, what he sold us for 1,100,- can also be found online for 800,-. Ok, I grant him the 300,-, since he installs it all as well. Karsten

I can still accept the 300. Still, it already has a bitter aftertaste, because with us, for example, he calculates the working time separately shown. And the stupid mixed calculations make me sick. I avoided being ripped off when buying the kitchen just as much as with ELT with KNX. I have the most important things done for me, the absolute cost drivers (kitchen: cutlery inserts made of oak wood, etc., KNX: presence detectors and switches) I get myself if the price at the provider is not right.

Kitchen... I've already ranted about that, and I'm not the only one. The only fair one we met was the big Swede. The worst was a huge German furniture store; compared to that, the medium-sized kitchen studio from Musterrimg was almost highly reputable, albeit expensive. When it comes to electricals, we are old-fashioned. A lamp has a light switch, a socket is a socket, and knx doesn't reveal its purpose to me.