Solid house or prefab house - experiences?

But you can surely explain what exactly is supposed to be bad technology now?

6m distance to the projection surface is bad technology.

Yes, I think that is indeed the right tip. Now that we - I think - have "phased out" the prefabricated houses (that is the system manufacturers or whatever you now call them exactly), there is nothing against going to the architect, hoping that he will then take us by the hand and guide us through the building project. One more question: Does it make more sense to look for the architect near the construction site or near the current place of residence? So do you see each other more often at the construction site or more often in the office?

I think it is good that you take the advice. The question of the architect is hard to solve. Both can be a stroke of luck or a flop. Question: How far do you currently live from the building site? It makes more sense to have the property. an architect on site, as he also has the craftsmen on site. The architect in Munich can design a great house in Hamburg, but he has absolutely no idea which craftsmen will then build the house.

Does it make more sense to look for the architect near the construction site or near the current place of residence?

That depends on how much distance is in between.

The selection of construction companies for solid houses seems quite limited here.

There are no providers for solid prefabricated houses here,

Search roughly up to 150km in and around Günzburg on Maps for "Bauunternehmen" and then google their services and references. There will be quite a few.
Yes, you apparently have the prefab manufacturers (timber frame construction) in your area. That is misleading. And one should not expect the homepage to compete with Schwörerhaus, Weberhaus and co.

The basement is also subcontracted by this manufacturer. Not a good basis of trust, in my opinion.

What does that have to do with trust? That’s normal when timber does not offer concrete as well. If Schwörerhaus offers it as a complete package, that is not more trustworthy, just more practical. Because: Shoemakers should stick to their last. And I can well imagine it is an extra package where then company xy is commissioned.

And even though we came with a sketched floor plan, we were just thrown a catalog from which we were supposed to select a floor plan - as a basis... Those were just a few examples.

Well, here we were told by several parties (including an architect) that it is difficult to transfer an architect’s planning into a prefab house, as these have many peculiarities, e.g., the wall structure, etc. Therefore, it would make more sense to plan with the respective architect who is familiar with the respective manufacturer.

Yes, that is because everyone has their cost-optimized standard houses in production. Possibly with extensions, but on the grid or 62.5 cm extension.
I don’t think the catalog was just thrown at you?!

whereas the closed system of a single manufacturer included as standard was continuously praised to us...

Yes, that is how "turnkey" works, whether solid or timber frame construction.

- well, if you really need it that badly...

Now, now, not so dismissive... At the moment, it looks more like you need it that badly.

They say on the phone "Then write to info@" and then don’t get back anymore.

Then they don’t need a new customer. Accept it, straighten your crown.

Acquaintances who have already built solid keep giving the same answer: "Please not with ours - that was a disaster" - up to walls that aren’t 90° or cables running across windows...

Yes!
Our neighbor recently measured the paving in front of his carport with a ruler and complained about 2 cm and insisted it be fixed.
Many expect from a wall plaster Q2 that it is as smooth as a baby’s bottom.
Many write negative reviews because the construction company does not want to seal the crack between the solid wall and drywall.
Many don’t even know that their construction service description does not include this or that and then badmouth the company.
And so on.

but directly that we should already do a soil survey, although we don’t even know yet where exactly on the plot the house or basement should be built - somehow doesn’t make much sense either.

Yes, maybe a bit early without prior talk. But I would have done it at your place already!

Furthermore, the costs seem quite high with an average of 3,000 to 3,500 € per m²

No! They are normal!

(comparison with prefab house between 2,500 and 2,800, incl. basement and LAN)

No, those are presumably catalog prices without slab/basement and various reductions that you must buy expensively. The basement is calculated separately because above slab level is usually taken for comparison. The basement is also a much cheaper number as it is not living space.

The biggest blow came at the end when we were told that the house could be ready at the earliest in two years.

Yep.

3 months planning, 1 month building permit, 9 months this weird inspection,

And if nothing is planned or inspected and something goes wrong, we are back at the acquaintances who warn about their company...

Can you also rely on air heating for a solid house or is underfloor heating more sensible?

Wrong question: which heating is optimal for us?

With 700,000 € minus 10% buffer = 635,000 € - 200,000 € (additional costs, basement, garage, outdoor facilities) = 435,000 € / 3,000 = 145 m²
Or where is my mistake?

First of all the buffer mistake: You need a buffer for unforeseen issues. Don’t deduct it flatly but add it on for what makes sense.
What do you want? 180 sqm = 540,000 €
Buffer 60,000 = 600,000 €
Additional building costs 30-50,000 €
... not enough for a basement! Period!
Then you can recalculate without a basement.

why not a nice home cinema room in the basement?

Because the money is not enough for a basement.

We already had three water pipe bursts - I don’t want to experience that with wood. Just an example.

Instead, you plan the toilet right in the middle of the house, that has already happened.

Furthermore, an office with at least 12m² is to be set up on the ground floor and the guest WC with a large shower for old age

Big house, basement, yada yada... and of course also age-appropriate. Why not also barrier-free?

and of course a pantry.

Of course!

but maybe one has other ideas than the absolute minimum...

There is not only minimum and maximum - there are also real house sizes. With those you can also have fun.

Well, the existing kitchen is 3.5 by 3.5m

Well, 3.5 x 3.5 is a really poor dimension for a kitchen. Not an ideal room at all because ideal average rooms should more likely be rectangular.

A bedroom is a separate room and should - with a double bed and wardrobe - already have 16m². And especially with a knee wall of 90cm that is still quite tight.

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No, what do you want to do there? Put in a bed, 2 nightstands and a three-meter wardrobe... with 90 cm knee wall you get about 100 cm knee space, and you influence the slope with the roof pitch.
But that does not mean I am against spaciousness. On the contrary, I prefer it generous. However, that then costs the basement. If basement, it costs spaciousness.
Stick to additional building costs of 50,000 €, hope it will be less, and for rough calculation take 3,000 €/living sqm and 1,500 €/basement sqm. If you see or get something cheaper, then you get "cheap" or many items must be paid by you on site.

6m distance to the projection surface is bad technique.

Aha. Too far, too close? What is bad about that?

I think it's good that you take the advice.

The architect’s question is difficult to solve. Both can be a stroke of luck or a flop. Question: How far do you currently live from the construction site?

about 30km. So it’s not impossible to travel in either direction, the question is just where you meet most...

More sensible is the property. An architect on site, as they also have the craftsmen locally.

The architect has craftsmen? I thought they only do the planning and a general contractor or the client takes care of the trades?

The architect in Munich can design a great house in Hamburg, but they have absolutely no idea which craftsmen are to be used to build the house.

That depends on how much distance is between.

30km

One should search about up to 150km in and around Günzburg on Maps for "construction companies" and then google their services and references. There will already be quite a few.
Yes, you apparently have it in your area with the prefabricated house manufacturers (timber frame construction). That is tempting. And one should not expect that the homepage can keep up with Schwörerhaus, Weber, and co.

We already had construction companies that don’t drive 40km to the construction site – so I should look within a radius of 150km?

What does that have to do with trust? It’s normal if wood doesn’t also offer concrete. If Schwörerhaus offers it as a complete package, that is not more trustworthy, just more practical. Because: cobblers should stick to their last. And I can well imagine that it is an extra package, where then company xy is commissioned.

You took that out of context. It’s not about the cellar being subcontracted, it’s about the explicit wish to build a cellar being vehemently opposed, and the salesperson compromising much more for his commission than to accommodate our wishes. He earns nothing on the cellar, so he repeatedly spoke badly of it. If I have the feeling someone is working against my interests, I cannot trust him. Period.

I don’t think the catalog was just thrown at us?!

Seriously?

Yes, that’s how “turnkey” works, whether solid construction or timber frame construction.

No. You can have the system as standard, but even with turnkey I can choose other components/systems/etc. Then the manufacturer can say I have to take care of it myself, but if you stubbornly always promote the same thing over and over again, even though the decision has already been made by the customer, that doesn’t go down well. If you buy a car and want the trunk to open electrically (because you, for example, load and unload boxes every day) and meet a salesperson who keeps telling you that you better unlock with the key because they don’t have an electric trunk in the program and you can also put the boxes on the ground every time, then hopefully you won’t buy the car there.

Now, now, don’t be so disparaging... At the moment it rather looks like you’re the ones who really need it.

That has nothing to do with being disparaging. If a manufacturer “really needs” it, I worry about his liquidity or whether he will go bankrupt during construction – happened to an acquaintance (but there the cable also ran through the window and due to groundwater the house had to be built 30cm higher, which reduced the knee wall to 60cm) – luckily only after the shell was finished. Otherwise, this comment is somewhat unnecessary.

then they don’t need a new customer. Accept it, adjust your crown.

Yes, that’s clear, my crown was not affected. I don’t chase after it either, but a “Sorry, currently we cannot take on new projects” is still the more pleasant way to communicate – whether right on the phone or later by email.

Yes!
Our neighbor recently also measured the paving in front of his carport with a tape measure and complained about 2 cm and insisted that it be corrected.
Many expect Q2 wall plaster to be as smooth as a baby’s bottom.
Many post bad reviews because the construction company doesn’t want to seal the crack between the solid wall and drywall.
Many don’t even know that their construction service description doesn’t include this or that and then talk badly about the company.
Etc.

Okay, so wrong angles and a cable running straight through a window are nitpicking at a high level for you?! If you work for a construction company, I would be very interested in the name so as not to make a mistake here.

No! They are normal!

Define normal.
On average we are currently between €2,800 and €3,200, so €3,000.
€3,000 to €3,500 is then somewhat higher, or am I mistaken? Especially since material prices are actually generally falling right now (especially wood), which apparently does not reach the customer...

No, those are presumably catalog prices without base slab/cellar and various reductions that have to be bought expensively. The cellar is billed separately because the comparison counts from the top edge of the base slab. A cellar is also considerably cheaper since it is not living space.

The mentioned prices are also without cellar. And whether a cellar is so much cheaper is probably also a question of the soil.

What, yep? 9 months of approval for a modular system. No, nobody can tell me that. I know an architect who plans 37 multi-family houses (also on behalf of the city), but unfortunately is neither self-employed nor plans single-family houses. But even he had to laugh. What does he check for about 1,500 hours?!

And if it’s not planned or approved and something goes wrong, we’re back with the acquaintances warning about their company...

Nine months of planning so that an electrician doesn’t notice when laying cables that he’s running them through a window?!

Wrong question: which heating system is optimal for us?

And can you tell me how I am supposed to answer that without experience?! Ask questions? Research? I did. Result see here.

First of all, the buffer error: you need a buffer for unforeseen things. Not deduct it wholesale, but add for a meaningful amount.
What do you want? 180 sqm = €540,000
Buffer €60,000 = €600,000
Additional building costs €30-50,000

... not enough for a cellar! Period!
Then you can recalculate without a cellar,
because there’s not enough money for a cellar.

Aha... Thanks for your calculation. Funny that so far everyone (also the architect I talked to) assumes that it will work out well. But honestly: Then we increase the budget. Currently, it is planned to have paid off the house in 8 years, as our little one will then reach an age where the desires might get bigger. Then it will just be 9 or 10 years. And we calculated with an interest of 3.75%, which we wouldn’t have reached at the wedding even with over 50% equity, but the interest rate increase was just about to stagnate and it was still assumed it would rise further. And then we keep calculating nicely where we left off.

Big house, cellar, pipapo, and of course also age-appropriate. Why not (also) barrier-free?

Because you can make age-appropriate barrier-free when you need it. You can manage a ramp, you can install a lift, etc. In contrast, enlarging the floor plan is quite annoying.

There isn’t only minimum and maximum – there are also real house sizes. And you can enjoy those as well.

Ah, and what would those be? The house currently being built by our neighbors with 230 sqm for about €800,000 is a mirage?

Well, 3.5 x 3.5 is a really poor size for a kitchen. Not an ideal room at all, because ideal average rooms should be rather rectangular.

You seem to read only half – just that this claim doesn’t even make sense.

No, what do you want to do there? Bed in, 2 nightstands, and a three-meter wardrobe... with a 90 cm knee wall you have 100 cm knee wall height and you influence the slope with the roof pitch.
But that doesn’t mean I’m against spaciousness. On the contrary, I prefer it generous. However, that costs the cellar. If cellar, then it costs spaciousness.

And where have you considered the roof pitch now? Through the base slab there is not much room and you probably took 90°?!

Stick to additional building costs of €50,000, hope it will be less and for rough calculation take €3,000/Living sqm and €1,500/Cellar sqm. If you see or get it cheaper, then you get “cheap” or many items have to be paid for on site.

As you may have seen, we have already calculated €100,000 for additional building costs. In addition, there are services we can do ourselves. I never spoke of turnkey.

Does the architect have craftsmen? I thought he only does the planning and a general contractor or the builder takes care of the trades?

The architect can (but does not have to) do more than just draw a house. He can create detailed execution plans (or the carpenter does) for the solid house. He can also prepare tender documents for craftsmen (a general contractor can also apply), manage construction supervision, and much more.
He is the person who can support you completely.
Also please search the forum for the mentioned keywords.

From top to bottom… my post #26 was once again edited by the m o d e r a t i o n.
I don’t follow the elephant, but I prefer to be active in other forums. So this will be my last post in this thread.

Actually, I don’t tear anything apart. A prefab company (timber construction) always seeks the way with the fewest possible construction errors and defects. If I remember correctly, your concern was about trust in a construction company/house builder that offers everything hand in hand?!

No, hand in hand was not mentioned. And that the manufacturer can very well build with a basement, I know from two friends who have already built successfully here.

That is your assumption.

No, a logical conclusion. Because the arguments against the basement were hardly convincing. I could have accepted an argument like "a basement is always hard to calculate because of soil conditions, blah blah"... But that was clearly more flimsy.

First rule: construction companies are not there to work according to the interests of the builder, but in their own interest. They are entrepreneurs!

Customer satisfaction should be in the entrepreneur’s interest – at least if he acts sustainably.

Seriously…
If you want to build with a general contractor or home builder, you have to adapt somewhat to that company. Whether you like it or not.

Again taken out of context – the “seriously” clearly referred to the word tantrum.

A house is not a car.

A house is a product with a provider and a buyer.

Yes, of course. If the brand manufactures such a vehicle, then I rely on that.
If they refuse certain things I value, then I can reshuffle the cards. What is this detail worth to me? Why did I end up with this brand? Do I get this detail from another seller or only with another brand? So if I ask KNX at a cheapo, I’m in the wrong league.

This was about the basement... It’s a bit tedious... If I don’t want a basement and the seller doesn’t understand that, I go somewhere else. Period.

Well, come on… but I admit every new builder is first very surprised and then may ask in a forum whether all house builders are such blah blah. Then he learns that it is so, he learns something about descriptions of services, grids, model houses, construction prices 2024, etc., and becomes crabby ;) wink, the last one.

That is from my opening thread and has nothing to do with any insights and certainly nothing to do with anything from your list but rather with SPAM. I’m slowly getting the feeling you’re quite confused?!

You see, you doubt everything. What you don’t doubt is your opinion about the industry.

What do I doubt?! Your comments are getting more and more inappropriate.

I am very precise about the description: is there also a photo of the two different trades where an electric cable can run _in_ a window? It is remarkable that this example has to serve as proof for everything. Four times?

Certainly... It is rather remarkable that one has to mention it four times so that you understand it’s not about a 2cm deviation. Which again makes me think you don’t really read or are very confused or both.

No, you don’t have to work for the other party just because you try to “adjust” the focus for others a bit. A look at the avatar sometimes helps.

Your avatar gives no clue. It is also not “the other party,” because the construction companies are not in opposition. I’m not against construction companies, how do you come up with that?!

No, the equipment. Your price example, to which I referred, included the basement and was named by you.

Which price example?! I have never included the basement anywhere in any m² price. Show me that please...

There we have the example again…

Which you have successfully ignored so far. But nice to see that repetition does pay off for everyone.

Then just do it. If it is feasible and you don’t want to make compromises, a good decision.

It wasn’t really about the price. Rather about the approach or my previous experiences and a directional guide. That I got, even if you didn’t really contribute to it.

You should consider this: barrier-free usually means an increase of about 20% in most floor plans. Of course, it depends on the plan. But then 16sqm bedrooms are indeed not enough, nor is the already generous 6sqm guest WC on the ground floor. Then it has to be a bit bigger for the wheelchair.

Of course... I just wanted to show that even with the “minimum dimensions” you quickly need a bigger area. Accordingly, we are already planning larger. Clearly, our bedroom is planned larger than 16m² and the guest WC has about 10m². The office on the ground floor is supposed to serve as a bedroom in that case, which is of course also planned larger. Even the doors are positioned so that they can be converted to 90cm width. Always hoping it won’t be needed.

Not really. I’m very precise about that.

Even your “last thread” reveals something quite different. Unless you now refer to the “actually.”

We don’t know that! 90 degrees is not a roof pitch.

Yes! Thread #1, 2nd paragraph. So much for your accuracy. But apparently you planned with 90° if you put a 3m wardrobe on a 3m wall.