Renovation of a single-family house from the 80s - Is the cost estimate realistic?

I’ll take the liberty of bumping my post. It’s getting serious and the first offers are being created/requested.

A post that after seven months still had no response. There could be a connection to the fact that you are presenting a bare sea of numbers without the slightest illustrations or plans. We don’t know your house; how are we supposed to estimate from this murky crystal ball how expensive it is to bring it up to standard? Yvonne’s questionnaire, which is actually idiot-proof for a good reason, was filled out inadequately; that can only be topped by ignoring it entirely ;-) It is clearly not advisable to just dump a question here "free curbside," and then just wait for a miracle. We are happy and willing to help, but we also need basics and the "cooperation of the patient." Summarizing breakthroughs including steel beams under the lump sum item “interior finishing in general” still sounds funny. Overall, your presentation raises the suspicion that you want to dare the madness of tackling the whole operation without an architect (by the way, I miss all engineering and consultant fees as well as the construction supervisor in your listing). 53k for wood-aluminum windows may be about right, but altogether we’re talking over 300k (planned!), so I strongly recommend a proper tender. Just through tendering, you can incur around 15% more costs here if you DIY. You should also only do the site management yourself if this is already your third renovation. All in all, I see a cost overrun potential of about 60k and more here. In another thread, you mentioned inhabited basement rooms, which posed a complication for your energy consultant. That is also a small indication of an above-expected cost development ;-)

Many thanks in advance for your input. We live quite rurally and are also lucky that I have many skilled tradespeople in my circle of friends. Accordingly, we try to do quite a bit ourselves with EL and friends.

Are you doing the floors yourselves? So is it just material?
Otherwise, I see photovoltaics and interior finishing as tight, especially after the description of the interior finishing you are planning.
The delivery times should be interesting...

So, I once calculated the floors using internet sources. We trust ourselves with the basement floor, for which I had set about €50 per sq.m. On the ground floor €120 per sq.m. and on the upper floor €75 per sq.m. (bathroom €130 per sq.m.). According to the sources, installation was actually included in the prices. But it’s good to know that we definitely have to take a closer look here again.

Photovoltaics will likely be higher just for that reason, as according to current research I tend to do the whole roof fully (without storage). That could be around 25 kWp. The price position definitely doesn’t fit.

For the interior finishing, we would like to do as much as possible ourselves except for the actual painting work (plastering, ...).

We are also curious about the delivery times, but what can you do. We don’t have a fixed deadline now and have to take the time we need.

The point "after subsidy," could you please take the cost item before subsidy? No idea what the rates are currently. Where are you renovating? We are installing windows with partly venetian blinds and partly roller shutters and will end up at about €40k with plain plastic. What is included in the bathrooms? Could be too low.

By the way, we are from Baden-Württemberg and are energetically renovating an ’80s house with partial addition. Expensive fun despite a lot of EL.

The renovation is in Lower Franconia (towards Rhön). We will get window quotes soon, then it will definitely become more concrete. In April, I had a quote of €46k for wood-aluminum windows from a regional carpenter. Currently, for aesthetic reasons, we are moving away from wood.

Cost items before subsidies would be: windows €50k, roof €60k, plumbing is currently difficult as I had previously calculated heating with different subsidy rates.

I find electrical and photovoltaic tight, windows rather set high.

I have already explained photovoltaics. Electrical is really very roughly estimated. I now also have to go through with the electrician to clarify what actually needs to be done. Also to take stock (number of switches, sockets, ...).
Interesting regarding the windows. Opinions now range from could be tight to rather set high.

Where do your numbers from March come from? Too bad the thread got lost.
I remember someone reporting here this or last year that they wanted to renovate a normal-sized bathroom: cost estimate something around €40,000… here, I found it:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/kosten-fuer-badsanierung-in-muenchen.41704/

That means, much doesn’t have to be done?!
Then you can do without a conservatory if the budget isn’t enough or leave out the tiles and manage another few years;)

In March I hadn’t really been able to consult any craftsman companies yet, so the main basis was internet sources, opinions of friends, gut feeling and to some extent also a kind of budget to roughly estimate the overall volume.

Not everything has to be done. Something like a conservatory (also rather a cold conservatory) is, of course, nice-to-have and could also be implemented later.

A post that still had no reply after seven months. There might be a connection to the fact that you present a pure sea of numbers without the slightest illustration or plans. We don’t know your house, so how should we estimate out of a cloudy crystal ball how expensive it will be to bring it up to standard?
Yvonne’s questionnaire, which was actually idiot-proof pinned for a good reason, being filled out inadequately can really only be topped by completely ignoring it ;-)
It is clearly not advisable to just drop a question here "freestyle" and then just wait for a miracle. We are happy and willing to help, but we also need basics and the "patient’s cooperation."

Summarizing breakthroughs including steel beams under the bulk item "interior finishing in general" still sounds funny. Overall, your presentation raises the concern that you want to dare the madness of tackling the whole operation without an architect (by the way, I miss all engineering and consultant fees as well as the construction supervisor in your list). 53k for wood-aluminum windows may be about right, but overall we are talking about over 300k (planned!), so I strongly recommend a proper tender. Alone with the tender you could incur about 15% higher costs if you do it yourself. You should also only do site management yourself if this is already your third renovation. All in all, I see a potential additional cost of about 60k and more here. In another thread, you mentioned inhabited basement rooms that complicated things for your energy consultant. That is also a small indication of an overly optimistic cost development ;-)

Actually, I really didn’t see the questionnaire, nor can it be called idiot-proof pinned; maybe it should also be pinned in this subforum. Then it would have been a conscious ignoring. I oriented myself somewhat on previous threads here and didn’t have the feeling that I was giving clearly less info and so on. But I also don’t see that the floor plan questionnaire (if that is what you mean) fits here 100%.

But I do agree with you that of course more info is needed, and I will gladly provide that. It’s not as if I don’t want to cooperate and I gladly accept the criticism. The floor plan is currently being revised and can then be submitted later.

We have an architect in the family. In my opinion, the basement rooms are not problematic. They are already inhabited. Additional measures on the basement walls would have been necessary, so the energy consultant and I decided not to aim for an energy efficiency rating.

But you are right, I definitely need to break down the interior finishing point more finely. In fact, I am somewhat lacking the current plans myself. With corresponding key figures (ceiling area, wall areas, …), it is of course also possible to estimate much better.