Kitchen: closed or open? What room layout?

And from the cooking island, you no longer chat with the people 10 meters away on the couch while sizzling, bubbling, and using the extractor hood...

[C]ooking[/C] island[C]?[/C] [C]preparation[/C] island[C]![/C] Stove on the wall unit.

Especially not if it's a corner unit.

You don't have to place it there anyway.

But you can, for example, change rooms after eating and no longer enjoy your drink/evening amid the cooking smells.

I can understand that the smell can be perceived as disturbing. But the combination of a decent extractor hood and controlled residential ventilation should limit or even prevent this, right!?

At least I need more than a pot and a pan that fit in the dishwasher for that.

Large dishes on the stove don’t bother if they are reasonably clean on the outside. There is a lot more lying around in a buffet. Smaller items that don't fit into the first dishwasher: put them in the sink, cover them, wait for the next machine. Use quick programs if helpful. Dirty trays can stay overnight in the oven if necessary. The "tidy" condition doesn't have to be the "default" of a new kitchen, does it?

Furthermore, but that varies from person to person, I would miss walls and storage space. So I have two more for cupboards/sideboard/dresser etc.

With a U-shape (or even an O broken through by a door), how much extra storage do you gain without pulling the kitchen units too far apart? You initially create dead corners and thus lose usable space compared to a two-line kitchen. Unless you do a two-line solution with an island + a free wall behind the island in a large room used as a kitchen.

So? Whether the sink or the stove is on the island really makes no difference. Only: having both on the wall unit or on the island is bad for the workflow, but since I thought you often cook with friends and have conversations – especially then the stove and space on the island would be a good solution.

By no means is that the same. Usually, dishes require more preparation time than cooking time. And things can often cook on their own, but they don’t chop themselves. If you also work with a DGC, the stove is no longer the most used place in the kitchen.

Not outside the room, yes inside, unless you have an extraction hood and not a recirculation hood. Because the latter does not do much against odors, rather against water/fat steam.

Good recirculation hoods obviously do a lot against odors (carbon filter). The bit about fat applies to every hood. You can only get rid of water with extraction, not with recirculation.

For me, that is not just about hiding dirty stuff.

Temporarily storing out of sight until the next machine is free, I don’t consider "hiding," but sensible storage.

It’s simply a tolerance limit that varies from person to person, which is OK.

I agree with that. If this limit is already exceeded by a pot + a pan (or a wok), a closed kitchen is certainly appropriate.

I don’t understand this argument at all. I "gain" about 8m-10m (4-5m per side) of wall space that you otherwise wouldn’t have, without having to pull anything apart – it’s not about a renovation but a direct planning as separate rooms. So the UO problem simply doesn’t exist.

I think we’re talking past each other here. I assumed kitchen dimensions that do not allow for an island with closed architecture anymore. In that case, closed in the kitchen does not bring much gain.
What you describe is a closed kitchen with an island plus so much space behind it that you get an entire extra wall length on the kitchen side. You can do that, but I did not have it in mind when I commented.
The other walls then also have completely different lengths in such a room.

Two-liners with an island are absolutely impractical.

Sure. I meant two-liners where the island is the second row… Two-liners are ergonomically the best.

I’m glad I have one.

I’m also a fan of islands. Just open, though.

By no means is it the same thing. Courts usually need more preparation time than cooking time. And things can often cook by themselves, but not chopping. When you work with a DGC, the stove is by far not the most used place in the kitchen anymore.

That also varies, depending on how and what you cook. At least for me, there are dishes where it’s a mixture (searing, adding, again and again..) then it’s good if it’s more side by side. But it can be different for you, and stove and sink on one side, in my opinion, takes up too much space, or if there is only half a meter between stove and sink, and if that space on a wall row also has to share space with other kitchen appliances (toaster, kettle, whatever), that’s bad. But that also depends on the equipment, for example I wanted a sink that fits my baking sheet or grill rack, at least in width, which takes up space. And I do need space next to the stove when cooking.

Good recirculating hoods of course do a lot against odors (carbon filter). The bit about grease is true for every hood. You can only get water out with an exhaust system, never with recirculation.

But the carbon filter never removes all cooking odors, and everything the hood doesn’t suck in, especially what is created during preparation and cooking not on the stove, can spread in the room.

Invisible interim storage until the next machine is free is not “hiding” but sensible storing.

Matter of opinion. After a long day I would then find it randomly next time.

I agree. If this limit is already exceeded by a pot + a pan (or a wok), then a closed kitchen is certainly appropriate.

That’s completely exaggerated again. The limits are fluid, and so far tidying up was the minor argument for separating the rooms.

I think we’re talking past each other. I assumed kitchen dimensions that do not allow an island with closed architecture anymore. In that case, closed in the kitchen doesn’t gain much.

I have always clearly spoken of a large kitchen - including seating area. With 12 sqm or comparable, of course that makes no sense.

Sure. I meant a two-liner, where the island is the second line... Two-liners are ergonomically the best. I am also a fan of islands. Just open though

Yes, definitely, and with an island you get a third row - depending on the island - “free” with such a setup, which I also find very practical for some things. Through openness you can, for example, easily “work” on a baking sheet together with two people or similar. But two-liners with an island - as you perhaps thought with separated rooms? - then cause an endless obstacle course. Otherwise, I wouldn’t really consider my idea as truly “closed,” just as a separation; it’s basically an open-plan kitchen and a living room we have with it, instead of a living kitchen room.

You chop more than you stir. Plus point for the preparation island. In addition, cooking on the island is simply the most expensive option, as downdrafts are expensive and take up storage space in the island. Alternatively, you get used to an island hood that hangs in the room.

It seems very theory-heavy to me. What speaks against preparing and cooking on the island? Especially since we usually prepare all courses before a dinner and then only cook and plate on the island while the guests are there. An island without a hob would be almost pointless for me. The extractor takes up exactly one of 6 height units for me.