How complicated are heat pumps in practical operation?

  • Erstellt am 2021-11-22 11:47:23

Mycraft

2021-11-22 14:39:20
  • #1
The problem also lies in the fact that many simply do not want to understand it. Not a few are simply overwhelmed. Just yesterday, a heat pump was said to be the ultimate climate killer, and now it is the climate savior.
 

Deliverer

2021-11-22 14:51:03
  • #2

Really? I’ve never heard that before...
 

Mycraft

2021-11-22 15:24:30
  • #3
Perfect example. You just have to sell it properly and it works. But don’t get me wrong, heat pumps are a great thing. I completely agree.

And one thing in advance: The medium the heat pump works with in the end, be it water, glycol, or air, does not change the functionality at all. It is always the same principle. The system simply pumps heat from A to B or from B to A or in both directions.

[B]Background[/B]
Sensationalist Reporting
Especially in summer, the daily and business press repeatedly report sensationally and usually with little technical knowledge about air conditioning systems. Such reporting damages the reputation of an entire industry that is vital for many areas of our daily lives, such as food refrigeration, hospital and laboratory air conditioning. The business with air conditioning systems in the private and commercial sectors is also affected, where there are good reasons for their use. Here are two examples from the media:

    [*]In September 2019, the Süddeutsche Zeitung headlined: “Air conditioners are climate killers. Many cooling units contain climate-damaging fluorinated refrigerants. Through cracks, they can escape into the atmosphere.”
    [*]And in July 2020, ZDF broadcast the report “Climate killer air conditioners” in the series “planet e.”, which included statements from the Federal Environment Agency. There, Dr. Daniel de Graaf explains: “On average, about 5% of the refrigerant escapes each year from every split air conditioning unit – during charging, operation due to leaks, maintenance, and disposal.”
 

pagoni2020

2021-11-22 15:40:05
  • #4
The question remains, however, whether and how sensible this type of heating is for someone who simply wants to be comfortably warm. It is undisputed that this topic can be very prone to errors if one does not want to deal with it. It starts with the fact that some home builders simply encounter rejection or stubbornness from the craftsman and have no other choice but to follow his way or live with the risk that he refuses the construction. Often the heating installer comes from somewhere and then disappears back there, I remember lengthy discussions in the forum about this. So I am supposed to turn something off AFTER installation, something that I actually need but on the other hand should not use... for ME this already causes nausea AND I am supposed to contradict the heating guy on multiple levels and demand a different installation from him than he recommends... ufff... The heating guy doesn’t want to lay the pipes so tightly, orders a pump that is too large, wants buffer tanks, etc.... I have read about the many possible errors here and as a layman I am supposed to tell him that all of that is nonsense. :eek: Even if not everyone may understand this, for me it would be dreadful to have to worry about such things and for that reason this would have been the wrong system for me. If I had had the “trusted heating installer” here I would have been happy to be convinced by him as well but here it was rather the quick-in-quick-out faction present at the construction site. I am neither interested in the meaning of a heating curve nor a spread nor any of the other thousand technical things of this heating system, I am interested in warm/cold, and specifically so that it is comfortable for me. However, I also understand that someone might like to dig into it, optimize and outsmart the configured system to their advantage - for me that would be total stress, I step outside briefly to get a piece of wood for the fireplace (once it is finally set up). Long story short: A system that not every heating guy can accomplish or that I as a layman have to professionalize myself in cannot be mine; but the same applies to other devices as well. I really like good quality but just as much also simple functionality, at least I do not see that with this technology to achieve the efficiency described in datasheets and indeed desirable. I find the apparently mostly rather mediocre installation quality unacceptable.
 

Hangman

2021-11-22 15:41:25
  • #5


In the calculations made prior to building a house or for applying for subsidies, from my point of view, the heat pump is by far the least critical component. Much more influence is had by all kinds of "calculations" on U-values, thermal bridge surcharges, frame proportions of windows, natural infiltration as well as heat recovery from ventilation, solar and internal heat gains, and so on. It looks insanely scientific and precise on paper, but in practice is quite variable. That means, if there are deviations between calculated and actual consumption values, these are probably in more than 90% of cases due to component quality, sloppy workmanship during construction, poor underfloor heating planning, user behavior, and of course optimistic assumptions in the original calculation (after all, one wants to show the most favorable values possible to achieve the subsidy level). However, all this is independent of the type of heating (heat pump or gas) or the degree of optimization.

Or to put it differently: a well and seriously planned and executed house will also be economically heated with a heat pump on standard settings.

Otherwise, a heat pump is completely uncritical: we took over our house exactly one year ago tomorrow, the "instruction" for the heat pump lasted ten minutes ("Please only adjust the room target temperature until you feel comfortable. Otherwise, hands off"), and in the first weeks the heating technician came twice on cloudy days with a thermal camera to look at the temperatures of the floor surfaces and radiator valves and adjust the flow if necessary. Otherwise, exactly NOTHING was done, or even 'optimized'. Why should it? This year we will have about 11,000 kWh heating and hot water demand, for which we will need 2,000-2,200 kWh of electricity... what else is there to optimize?
 

Benutzer200

2021-11-22 15:50:48
  • #6

For laymen: You get an S-Class and after optimization you have a Rolls Royce. The better is always the enemy of the good. So 600€ heating costs per year or 580€ after "optimization".
 

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