Heat pump with photovoltaics vs gas and solar thermal

To the OP: Yesterday, I made a calculation for myself, which helped me a lot to finally decide on the nebulous topic for me.

In my calculation, it turned out that based on my heating load, I would have a gas consumption cost of €565. A heat pump would be somewhere in the middle at around €760, assuming a seasonal performance factor of 3. What is missing for gas, however, are the annual maintenance costs for the chimney sweep and maintenance contract. Here, I calculated €200. ~€50 for the chimney sweep, €150 for the maintenance contract. In that case, the gas heating no longer looks that good. Overall, we would have initially saved €2700, but in return, we would also have a gas line in the house. With a seasonal performance factor of 3.5, the calculation already looks very much in favor of the heat pump.

Our advantage is that we are building with a fireplace and can possibly heat simply in winter. However, only because it’s fun to watch the fire, not because we have to.

It also became clear that geothermal drilling would not be worthwhile for us. Around €8000 cost, minus €4500 BAFA subsidy = €3500. If I assume a seasonal performance factor of 4.5 or 5, I save almost €200 per year. 3500/200 = 17.5 years until amortization. Who knows if the pump will last that long or if the borehole will provide energy for that long. By then, new heat pump generations will already be on the market, so I would simply replace my old air-water heat pump with a new one again.

For me it is clear: given the climate protection plan 2050 and the cost advantage over geothermal, the air-water heat pump is the best alternative. Yes, it initially costs €2700 more than gas, but I don’t have to worry about fossil fuel taxes and renovation pressure in the foreseeable future. Increasing electricity prices due to the Renewable Energy Sources Act surcharge can be compensated to some extent later with photovoltaics. Geothermal only comes into question if I find a cheaper drilling company; otherwise, the decision stays with the air-water heat pump.

I don't understand your problem with the heat pump.

I don't have a problem with the heat pump, otherwise I wouldn't have considered this; it's just that I don't see a solution for myself. I have also emphasized before that everyone should form their own opinion here based on the different installations and their reasons.

It may not be worth it for your circumstances, but for other situations, heat pumps are definitely a good and inexpensive alternative. You don't want to admit that.

I rather have the impression that you don't want to admit that there are also reasons AGAINST a heat pump. And a heat pump is not inexpensive. It may pay off over the years, but the initial investment is high, and that's exactly why we are discussing this here...

Additionally: the higher the demand, the more important the operating costs become. Therefore, all heating technologies certainly have their justification.

I agree with you 100%.

Additionally, I would have had to buy a gas/oil tank, which would have additionally cost a lot, plus ongoing costs and space. So for me, a slightly higher investment means lower operating costs.

What would the solution for a gas boiler + underground tank and chimney have cost you?

Which chimney sweep would approve this gas boiler setup and allow me to operate it?

Anyone, this is not a makeshift solution but built that way. Especially if you don’t have space in the basement. Just google heating in the attic.

In that price range, you don't have a boiler with 95% efficiency at 25kW output, do you?

Yes, it is a Vaillant device with a nominal utilization rate of 109%.

I also wrote earlier that my COMPLETE heating system cost 12k (Vaillant gas boiler 226/4 23kW, 2000l buffer, Vaillant solar station, chimney for gas condensing boiler is a 50mm plastic pipe, 7sqm solar by Wagner).

The extra cost for the water pocket was 1,500€. The masonry heater (including chimney, water pocket, etc.) cost 13k. However, I would have done the masonry heater anyway, not for heating purposes but for the ambiance and because I like sitting by a warm stove and looking into the fire. The idea with the water pocket was simply that you can also stoke the stove when you actually don’t need 'heat'. This way, I can also enjoy the fire when it is 20 degrees outside and channel the heat into the buffer...

And the fact that I am not completely off track with the heat pump is shown by tabtab’s post.

The contribution from tabtab also shows that heat pumps can be worthwhile, especially if you have a high demand. The lower the fundamental heating costs, the less you can save. Especially with your large demand, the operating costs argue in favor of a heat pump, with a cheap electricity tariff (if that was possible because of [Solar]) an air heat pump could already work to save money. Regarding tank costs/space, I can only comment at home. But just the space for a tank is worth a few thousand euros, and gas from a tank is even more expensive than from the pipeline (which further increases the operating cost advantage of the heat pump).

if you want we can gladly continue this as a pm, but I think it doesn’t make sense here anymore.

Your position is clear, mine too. In the coming years there will be no need for action for either you or me, but for those who are building new and have to make a decision, I think this discussion has definitely made sense.

Therefore, everyone who installs a heating system and is facing the choice of the medium must look at THEIR conditions and then calculate what makes sense.

And personal preferences must also be taken into account.

I personally love my tiled stove and could watch the fire for hours. I can sit down there with a glass of red wine and relax, that is (not only) PRICELESS FOR ME!

Therefore, anyone who installs a heating system and is faced with the choice of the medium must look at THEIR specific conditions and then calculate what makes sense.
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That is, at the end of the day, the summarizing answer! (even if it does not quite fit with your previous statement that you should always choose ST)

That's exactly what I already wrote, only that for me neither red wine, nor any other alcohol, nor fire are necessary for relaxation, on the contrary. But even in other threads the consensus was that a fireplace is a matter of taste, and only really makes sense for (main) heating if you can get wood cheaply.