Costs for extension and partial modernization of existing property

That is the reason why I am here, to gather opinions and experiences, it’s not like I haven’t already undertaken quite a bit to get the information valid for me.

It could have also been that someone from the Berlin metropolitan area is interested in taking a look and possibly overseeing the construction, implementing it, etc.

Your problem is so complex.. you simply cannot expect an answer over the Internet. What you need are professionals and they want to see money if they are to work for you. Yes, such an assessment and cost estimation is a lot of work and wants to be paid for. That’s just how it is.. just a quick "look" is by far not enough.

Regards, Steffen

Hello Steffen,

it’s not that I want this consultation / assessment for free either, but as described above, not much came out of it – either due to time constraints or lack of knowledge – no idea.

In my texts, the word Erfahrungswert appears repeatedly – that’s because I organize economic conferences and don’t know much about construction. Now, there are certainly people here on this forum who may have gone through comparable things or are architects, contractors who deal with this daily. Such average values / Erfahrungswerte exist for many areas. Just like it is said that for a new build / extension you should calculate a price per m² of €1,500 - €1,850 as a minimum. And that’s exactly the kind of information I wanted to have.

Eine rein energetische Sanierung (komplette Gebäudedämmung + Heizungsanlage), Badneubau und geringe Modernisierungsarbeiten würde ich bei ca. 80m2 NNF mit etwa € 70.000 veranschlagen. Der Neubau wird in etwa mit € 1.500/m2 NNF (sehr, sehr einfacher Standard) bis € 1.850/m2 NNF (normaler Baustandard) anzusetzen sein inkl. der Baunebenkosten, also mit Kosten in Höhe von € 90.000 bis € 110.00. Gesamtinvestition für Sanierung und Neubau als € ca. € 160.000 bis € 180.000. Vielleicht geht´s in Brandenburg etwas günstiger, aber nicht wesentlich billiger. Eigenleistungen können realistisch herausgerechnet werden (Zeit, Wissen + Können, Kondition). Üblich wären 8-10% des Baukosten mit etwa 20 Wochenstunden. Mehr leisten zu wollen über einen längeren Zeitraum erfordert viel Disziplin und ebenfalls engagierte Familienmitglieder.

From wpic, for example, was almost the golden answer. That no one here spits out an amount exact to the cent for my special case and assures me that everything will work out was clear to me.

Your first answer was also good, simply knowing that other people decided against it. Collective intelligence and gathering information, ideas, etc. is also a part for me that flows into my decision-making.

Thank you very much.

You could contact the [Architektenkammer]. They can surely tell you which architects in your area have experience with renovations. A pure "new build" architect is of little help there. I can well believe that.. with our current architect (who is really great) I wouldn’t want to renovate a house either.

No experience is needed to estimate the price of the property - if your information is correct.

The plot has +6000m². Building land supposedly experienced value increases (!) of 20-30€/m², with no end in sight. The standard land value must therefore be at least 40-50€, which would mean that the 6000m² without buildings would have a value of 240k€.

A contradiction - ergo no 6000m² building land, but about 800m² building land, the rest garden (5€). (or the seller is a fool)

Thus, plot value: ~58k€.

Leaving a "hefty" 22k€ for the entire property including the 2 solid barns. Since we have calculated everything so far at the lower limit (which does not fit your information about enormous value increase!), this means that the properties have a total value of €0.- (in words: zero).

Which matches my first thought when looking at the first picture - without knowing the plot size.

Ergo: something (massively) does not fit with your information or the seller is a complete fool.

My approach would be plot price minus demolition costs, leave the barns standing if used further and then build new or renovate and extend the demolition-worthy purchased house. The property definitely cannot be worth 80k€ in total if your information is correct, or if you pay 80k€, that is too much for a demolition and renovation is more expensive than new construction.

Best regards Dirk Grafe

Here are two excerpts from the 39-page report to corroborate my statements. The seller herself was born in 1932.

Everyone can form their own opinion about the truthfulness of my statements.

Sorry, if it has to be said so bluntly, but the truthfulness of your statement is close to zero.

The appraisal mentions a standard land value of 30€. This area therefore cannot have experienced a value increase of 30€, but at most by a few euros to 30€, and I strongly tend to assume that the standard land value in the area has not changed at all in the last 10 years.

30€ is also a clear indication that the property is not located in the commuter belt, because then the standard land value would have to be at least 100€, depending on the definition of the commuter belt even rather around 250€ - the location is miles away from that.

Nothing is developing there, it’s somewhere in the sticks where the fox says good night to the hare, and further value increases (your original statement: "[...] alone the standard land values have increased by a hefty 20 - 30€/m² in the past 2 years - there is no end in sight.") are definitely not to be expected there or only with a lot of luck and time. The end is already in sight there, probably long reached, and it is the stated €30.

If the location is fine for you, of course you can buy it and you will have peace and quiet for the next 50 years – but almost certainly with no increase in value. Everything else is absurd.

Best regards Dirk Grafe