Wastewater pipe concreted in the floor slab at the wrong location

Do you want a reasonable solution or do you want revenge? I rather think you want to squeeze money here. Have fun with your construction project...

Retaliation sounds so harsh... I also don't want to squeeze money out of this. I already wrote that I don't want a payout. But if someone makes a mistake (mistakes happen, no question) that is actually in the 1000 EUR range, then the person who caused it should somehow be held accountable or at least show appropriate acknowledgment.

The general contractor does not do bathroom installations. He stops at 100mm pipes. So the installer does it. The "additional costs" for the 50mm HT pipe solution are hardly recognizable on the invoice. Ergo, the general contractor would basically get away with it for free.

My suggestion that the general contractor should dig the approximately 4-5m long trench for connecting the water pipe to the already existing multi-utility connection (this costs him almost nothing, and it would cost me quite a bit) as "reparation" was not well received :-(

Incomprehensible. Because if I were to bring in a building surveyor who calculates what it costs to lay the pipe according to plan (because that’s how it was commissioned), it would be more expensive for the general contractor.... I don’t want that because then I’d have the hassle, and the general contractor certainly doesn’t want that because it would be expensive.

Can no one here say anything about the "presumed costs" for opening and resealing the base slab? Or does everyone just want to make a big deal out of me wanting retaliation and trying to squeeze money out?

Hello,

Incomprehensible. Because if I were to have a building inspector come who calculates what it costs to lay the pipe according to the plan (because that was commissioned), then it will be more expensive for the builder.... I don't want that because then I have the trouble, and the builder certainly doesn't want that either because it will be expensive.

I don't believe that, because the building expert will quickly realize that the small defect in the execution can be fixed with little effort. A building expert is not per se to be seen as a pretext for claims for damages, but as a kind of mediator to ensure that your construction project is carried out within the technically and commercially contractually agreed services!

Can or does no one here want to say anything about the "presumed costs" for opening and resealing the floor slab? Or does everyone here just want to harp on that I want retaliation and want to squeeze money out?

I'm sorry, but it really reads as if you want to convert a "hypothetical value"—by the way, I don't understand at all why your sellers argue in this direction. Do they have an old invoice open with the builder, and you just come in at the right moment?—into real services in kind (credit). I can understand your builder well and really wonder if you know what you're getting yourself into with this stubborn arguing? What if during the construction project a "real" defect occurs that cannot be remedied by a substitute measure?

No one can walk on water; I assume you can't either. It is also true that mistakes happen in construction—people make mistakes. Your installer has proposed a solution whose costs your builder will bear. Does it really matter how high the costs for the builder are? I think the defect-free handover should be more important to you? Using a sledgehammer to crack a nut has never been productive

Rhine greetings

Hello,

I could understand your argument about "using a cannon to shoot sparrows" if this were not about 44,000 EUR for "a bit of earthworks plus a 'simple' base slab." If it had been a 5,000 EUR base slab project, I wouldn't fuss much about 1,000 EUR.

The contractor had only two tasks:

* Dig out the earth for the base slab
* Install sewage pipes and pour the base slab

And he "messed up" one and now, in my opinion, wants to elegantly wiggle out of trouble.

I'm sorry, but it actually reads as if you want to convert a "hypothetical value" – by the way, I do not understand at all why your sellers argue in this direction. Do they have an old invoice open with the contractor and you happen to come along at the right time? – into real material services (credit note).

No, not sellers. I spoke with the carpenter of the timber house company, who is in charge of the technical management of the house construction projects. I know him quite well by now. They also do not have an "open" invoice with the contractor. They are also quite "perplexed" that the contractor is acting this way now. So far, he was always willing to compromise, etc.

The house construction company had no say in this either. They only created the plans for the base slab and pipes, and we concluded the contract for the base slab directly with the contractor.

I can understand your contractor well and really wonder if you know what you are getting yourself into with this intransigent arguing? What if a "real" defect occurs during the construction phase, which cannot be rectified by a substitute measure?

Everything else will be done by other companies. If things go totally sideways with the contractor in further discussions: fine. I don’t need him anymore.
But by now, I have a suspicion as to why the contractor is so negative: He had made a fixed-price offer. And contrary to all expectations, the excavation was more difficult due to many stones (which apparently only exist on our property; the neighbor’s land had nothing like that), which may have caused him to add a charge. But I am not to blame for that.

No one can walk on water; I assume you can’t either. It is also true that errors do occur in construction – people make mistakes. Your installer proposed a solution whose costs your contractor bears. Does it really matter how high the costs for the contractor turn out to be?

Nope, maybe Jesus can. But otherwise, I don’t know anyone. Sure, "nobody's perfect." When one makes mistakes, one usually stands up for them properly.
What I don’t really accept is: The contractor makes a mistake. Fine. The installer finds a usable substitute solution that I could live with. Also fine. The “extra effort” is barely noticeable for the installer. Whether the pipe is now 10 cm long and goes more or less directly into the 100 mm drain, or is 250 cm long and then goes into a 100 mm drain... that actually does not matter and will hardly be noticeable on the installer’s invoice either. Ergo: zero cost for the contractor, despite a basically serious mistake.

Where has the contractor attempted to make good on his mistake? Sure, problem solved, and the result is acceptable. I don’t really care about the amount of the costs. It is about the contractor admitting the mistake and somehow making amends for it. The emphasis is on "somehow."
But if he stubbornly refuses as he currently does, that smells to me like “getting off scot-free with zero costs,” and that would be a sign for me not to hire this contractor again or recommend him further.

That is why I ask here about the theoretical costs of opening and resealing the base slab. Just because there is luckily a cheaper solution does not mean that the theoretical dispute value can be reduced to the use of another drain pipe by chance nearby.

Again: Even if opening and closing the base slab actually costs 1,000 EUR: I don’t care about the amount. I would only want to argue that the contractor can come a bit towards me and "make amends" by digging the trench in front of the house, which would be much cheaper for him than if I were to "push through" the opening and closing of the base slab (which I do not want either).

Hello,

I do not understand

I could follow your argument about "using a cannon to shoot sparrows" if this were not about 44,000 EUR for "a bit of earthworks plus a 'simple' foundation slab." If it had been a 5,000 EUR foundation slab project, then I wouldn’t make a big deal about 1,000 EUR.

because it does not, in my opinion, correspond with this statement:

The builder only had two tasks:

* Excavating soil for the foundation slab
* Installing sewage pipes and pouring the foundation slab

And he "botched" one and now wants, in my opinion, to elegantly wiggle out of it.

But by now I have a suspicion why the builder is so negative: He made a fixed-price offer. And contrary to all expectations, the excavation was more difficult due to many stones (which seem to exist only on our property; there was nothing like that on the neighboring property), which is why he may have lost money on it. But that is not my fault.

Did the builder know the soil conditions or not? And how do the 44 thousand EUR add up?

Best regards from the Rhineland

Approximately 300 cubic meters of soil had to be excavated (slight slope). The whole thing is in a new development area. The immediate neighbors also only had a slab foundation laid. There were no larger stones exposed there. The excavation was roughly comparable. So the contractor assumed that it would be similar for us. Excavation for both properties was done by the same subcontractor.

Due to the slight slope, the slab foundation had to be somewhat more strongly "underpinned" at one corner. Otherwise, there would have been 30-40 cm of air under the slab at this corner.

In addition, there was gravel laying for the driveway of the double garage plus terrace, as well as the installation of a small, approximately 8-meter-long wall with short L-shaped stones.

I had obtained two independent quotes for the work. Both were only about 2k EUR apart. Other neighbors were priced in similar ranges. Therefore, I assume that the price for the work is reasonable so far. But prices are supposed to vary depending on the federal state and region. In Baden-Württemberg, I have been told, everything is somewhat more expensive than in Northern Germany.

Was the contractor aware of the soil conditions or not? And how are the TEUR 44 composed?

In principle, the soil conditions were therefore known, which is why the company gave a fixed price offer on their own initiative. But the devil is sometimes in the details...