Wastewater pipe concreted in the floor slab at the wrong location

  • Erstellt am 2012-09-13 16:04:04

tuxedo

2013-10-09 11:49:25
  • #1
Composition of the price:

All net:
1260EUR excavation of the construction pit, 300cbm
150EUR connection to the existing sewage system
225EUR trench excavation for pipes, 5cbm
120EUR pipe bedding made of sand, 2cbm
600EUR KG pipeline DN100, 40lfm
140EUR KG bends DN100, 20pcs
45EUR KG branches DN100, 3 pcs
30EUR transitions, 2 pcs
1000EUR multi-utility, 1 pc
3040EUR backfilling with pre-screened/recycled material, 80cbm
800EUR installation of gravel/recycled material in the yard area, 20cbm
210EUR supply of geotextile, 60sqm
3500EUR construction site setup
750EUR construction power connection
4050EUR production of foundations including earth excavation/formwork, 18cbm
1602EUR supply and installation of gravel filter, d=15cm, 188.5sqm
192EUR foundation earth electrode, 48lfm
5895EUR reinforced concrete slab d=25cm, 168.45sqm
320EUR PE foil under the slab, 160sqm
1431EUR blinding layer made of concrete d=5cm, 168.45sqm
6900EUR supply and installation of reinforcing steel, 4.6 tons

plus VAT and some smaller items such as the L-stone wall, the rounded lump sum price was then 42,000EUR plus another 2000EUR for the proportional disposal of approx. 250cbm of earth (deal together with the neighbor) == 44,000EUR
 

Wastl

2013-10-09 12:30:10
  • #2
3,500 € construction site setup? Respect,... ours was 250 €
 

Bauexperte

2013-10-09 13:30:24
  • #3
Hello,

thank you very much for the feedback.


Try to get the master carpenter on board if he has a better connection to the BU. Maybe you can find a cost-effective solution for your trench together.


Are you sure that the execution plans were correct or "could" the error have originated there as well? By the way, it has happened to us as well that execution plans were not read correctly. The customer affected now has a 3.00 m high wine cellar; not exactly cheap for our BU when you consider the total investment costs associated with the unwanted basement height increase.


Yes, that is true.

Again – even if you paid the BU a lot of money, I see no reason why he should provide additional services; unless for reasons of goodwill. You do not get worse service because of the change in execution. If he is really – as the master carpenter says – otherwise willing to accommodate his customers, there must be another reason for his behavior that you have not yet been aware of. I can’t imagine it is just because of the stony subsoil (your BU accepted that without comment), especially since he agreed to the fixed-price offer.

If I understand you correctly, it is primarily the total amount that prompts you to consider further replacement measures. Which I do not understand, because you were surely aware of the "disadvantages" of a hillside plot; you surely knew that it would not be done with EUR 5 or 10 thousand. Why, then, do you write


if you know that this amount was never on the table?


Try to see the situation from your BU’s point of view. He made a fixed-price offer and realized during the work that his profit had shrunk significantly due to the additional effort, machine usage, and working hours. Nevertheless, he carried out the contract without extra costs for you. Then this error occurred (regardless of who caused it) in the execution of the sewage pipes, which – luckily – can be fixed with little effort. So he does not pay extra at this point. Now you want – fully aware that this service will cost you some euros and that you would outsource it – that your BU bears these costs for you for a correctable "error" which does not reduce the overall service guaranteed to you?

What would you do if you were this BU?

Rhenish regards
 

tuxedo

2013-10-09 14:01:18
  • #4


This is my current approach. At least the master carpenter stands behind me and also finds the behavior of the general contractor more than strange.



The plans are correct. I checked them twice. They were created by the house construction company. They also immediately checked everything: all correct. The general contractor even admitted the mistake... but he cannot explain it.



No, he does NOT have to provide additional services. Only if you carry it through to the end, then I am sure I could insist on opening the floor slab. And that would be more expensive for the contractor than just making the small trench. Admittedly, that in turn would be more expensive than the 50mm HT pipe. But with just a little goodwill, the trench would definitely be doable.



Well, that is the big question that neither I nor the master carpenter have found an answer to.



Well, he FIRST made the fixed-price offer, we accepted it, and after he was done with everything and handed over the invoice, he mentioned in passing that he probably didn't make much profit because the large stones in the ground unexpectedly made it more expensive for them.
I see it this way: his problem. My problem now is that I have 50 cubic meters of earth lying there that I have to get rid of expensively because of the stones. But that's my risk. Everyone has their burdens to bear.



At first, I didn’t know it would be that expensive. It was estimated at 3-5k EUR by the home builder (and not just this one, another also estimated that order of magnitude). Only when the first contractors made their offers did we get wiser and realize that 3-5k EUR probably wouldn’t work.
At the beginning, the low price was based by the “experts” on the assumption that the earth removed from the back would be used to fill the front, so there would be a level surface. That this wouldn’t be that simple only became clear over the following months, until there was an actual offer.



I have thought about that part several times. That the contractor may already have suffered losses was and is his risk. I can't do anything about that. I was also not the one who proposed the fixed price. That came unsolicited from him. Back then I thought: “Wow, great. He’s really accommodating. Risk for me = zero.”

The error can only be “fixed” expensively (hole in the floor slab), but “circumvented” cheaply (50mm HT pipe to another drain). That should be distinguished. Hence the proposal for a compromise: the trench for the water pipe, which is more expensive than the “circumvention” but cheaper than the “fix.”

What I have been able to find out so far: I could insist on actually fixing the error. Because if I now plan a different floor structure than before (just hypothetically), then the 50mm HT pipe solution wouldn’t work anymore. The contractor surely knows that, too. So I do not understand why he resists the compromise. But it wasn't about why the contractor behaves this way, rather what the actual “fix” for the problem would roughly cost. I already have an estimate from a master carpenter (more used to wood than foundations). I only asked here for a second estimate to see if the first estimate is roughly right. To put the contractor in perspective that the trench is significantly cheaper for him than the “fix” (not the much cheaper "circumvention" that I aimed for via the plumber).



I would talk straight with the customer and not hem and haw or behave “strangely.” I made the mistake, so I have to deal with it. And if the customer insists on the expensive solution and absolutely doesn’t want me to do the cheapest solution, then I’d be glad to have a compromise I could go with. After all, I don’t want to alienate the customer, so that they might damage my business with negative word of mouth.
 

perlenmann

2013-10-10 08:08:00
  • #5
The way you argue here, I can imagine what your BU is thinking. Just throw the money at a lawyer and an expert, then you’ll see what you get out of it!

You probably have two options: Either you take your 50mm pipe or you "force" the BU to do your foundation properly. Surely the BU could also be willing to compromise, but I think you’ve lost that chance?!

I believe your mistake is thinking that you have a right to the difference in costs between a 50mm pipe and breaking up the foundation. You have a right to the temporary solution and maybe also the planned solution. I’m not a lawyer, but the most important thing is that the function is ensured!
 

Bauexperte

2013-10-10 10:31:34
  • #6
Hello,


The trench would represent an additional service, the costs of which would be borne exclusively by the BU; there's no getting around that.


If I were you, I wouldn’t be so sure about that, because the presiding judge—if it were to come to court—will always weigh the proportionality. And the fact is that the error can be remedied with very little effort—and without any significant disadvantage to you; opening the floor slab, on the other hand, is disproportionate, especially since it is not certain that it would not cause further difficulties.


That is another matter altogether, but it cannot be enforced either. Despite all the sympathetic understanding for your current frustration, in my opinion, with your hardened view of things you will not promote any conflict resolution.

Rhenish regards
 

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