The builder "outsources" fixed-price services to subcontractors

  • Erstellt am 2012-07-12 15:56:03

E.Curb

2012-07-13 15:38:11
  • #1

What else did you negotiate with your craftsman? The price is fixed anyway.
The quality? I would go for the best, because the clever engineer covers any additional costs.....
 

Der Da

2012-07-13 16:06:20
  • #2
Does that mean Santa Claus doesn't exist at all :D?

I also find it extremely strange that they take the risk. For you as the client, risks arise from this. If the office can't find a craftsman who works for their price, they will keep searching until they find one, and usually, you don't want to have that person in the house. :)
Do you at least have a time frame in the contract? Or are they allowed to search as long as they want until they find someone?
 

Musketier

2012-07-13 16:13:46
  • #3
Performance is specified as usual for a general contractor according to the [Bauleistungsbeschreibung]. The construction time guarantee as well. A general contractor does nothing different. He also only looks for the craftsmen then and takes on the risk that prices have increased in the meantime.
 

Bauexperte

2012-07-13 22:27:06
  • #4
Hello,

Without having seen the contracts, I would bet that you are rather naïve in your assumption. No one – not even an engineering office – gives anything away for free...

With a reputable general contractor who has been on the market for a long time, this risk is very manageable; the obvious "catch" for everyone: they offer at market conditions.

Then the question is surely allowed – since both models – according to your statements – are interchangeable 1:1 – why does the engineering office not act directly as a general contractor? And where do you see the advantage of the "engineering model"?

Kind regards
 

Jim Jones

2012-07-14 14:34:19
  • #5
On the one hand, I am pleased about the lively discussion here. On the other hand, I have become aware of my mistake while reading... The advantage of building with a developer is gone. Nevertheless, the contracts have been signed. The house construction was planned in the typical developer style: everything from a single source, I only have one contact person and only one who completes everything for me. It turned out differently now because we are the first ones to build this house from the developer's offer. Well, I will be an active reader here for the next few months and participate actively in the forum life - you seem to be quite decent :p
 

Musketier

2012-07-16 09:41:21
  • #6
Hello Construction Expert



I never said that the engineering office has anything to give away. Both the engineering office, a general contractor (GC), and a developer must calculate the cost of the house before contract drafting in order to set a fixed price. There will certainly be a small safety margin included in case prices increase within the fixed-price guarantee. Under completely identical conditions (scope of work description, purchasing conditions, profit margin), the same price will result for both the GC and the engineering office. I am excluding the developer here for tax reasons.



I wouldn’t say 100% interchangeable either. The engineering office has the advantage over the GC that it is primarily initially excluded from warranties, since contracts are signed directly with the subcontractors. With a normal GC, I address defects to the GC, who in turn goes to his subs (provided he doesn’t do everything himself). So, for the engineering office, this means initially less administrative effort and risk afterwards.

Now you’re probably wondering, what do I as a homebuilder get out of this? Conversely, I ask, what advantage is there if I build with an architect who awards contracts the same way?

The big problem with the GC is that they disproportionately earn from the GC surcharge on subsequent changes that are not included in the standard scope of work description or in the original offer.

The engineering office wanted a fixed fee. Since contracts are signed directly with the tradesmen, additional services are billed without a GC surcharge. So I can add extra services to those included in the fixed price more cheaply afterwards. Many homebuilders, not without reason, take some trades out of the GC’s offer and prefer to award them directly.

I don’t agree with the second advantage given by the engineering office. Allegedly, an additional construction supervisor is rather superfluous due to contract awarding like with an architect. For us, however, an external construction supervisor was mandatory.

I cannot decide now whether the advantage of the engineering office regarding warranty outweighs the disadvantage of not earning the GC surcharge financially, or whether the profit/fee already has to be calculated higher in the basic calculation.

In a forum, I once followed a lively discussion for and against building with an architect. The only problem with the architect is that they do not offer a fixed price, so I do not know upfront how much the house will cost in the end, even though it is often not (much) more expensive than a house from a GC. The architect can name a figure that they estimate, but they do not have to stick to it. In the end, the question remained open as to why the architect cannot calculate in such a way that they can also offer a fixed price? I think the engineering office tries to strike a balance between direct awarding of services as with architects and the fixed price of general contractors. Since it has been on the market for a long time, it seems to work so far.

Kind regards

Musketier

PS: And once again the note: I am not a representative of this company. Since their initially so prominently emphasized open pricing was no longer so open and the offer price was far above our expectations, we did not get beyond the second meeting.
 

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