Semi-detached house in Hamburg with general contractor on own land, two + full attic floors, no basement

  • Erstellt am 2025-07-26 12:27:31

Papierturm

2025-07-29 17:00:06
  • #1
Well, a relative standard. Fixed prices tiered for service phases 1-3 (always only together), service phase 4 (fully) and parts from later SPs. But then it depended on what the GCs would do. Of course, as soon as the GCs didn’t take on much here, it would of course have become significantly more expensive and he would have also billed according to HOAI. Sorry, then I summarized that incorrectly. That would be a new show idea! That was not meant that way by me either. What I wanted to get at: If two GCs submit bids for quite different houses (external dimensions, windows, equipment and so on), then they are hardly comparable. That was the result despite all efforts when we tried to obtain bids without specifying a prior plan. (Setting aside that many GCs were really very good at ignoring the development plan and what was discussed beforehand.) ... what is meant by that?
 

K a t j a

2025-07-29 17:20:04
  • #2
I think the wishlist needs to be cut first or the budget increased. Also, such restrictions like 80sqm of floor space are usually a hindrance in planning for tightly calculated construction projects. It's better to give the architect complete freedom and mention that you also want a garden. Preferably more specific like a terrace and vegetable patch or just a terrace for one person, the other a football field, etc.
 

11ant

2025-07-29 18:53:55
  • #3

That may have been preceded by me having expressed myself ambiguously in part. Can you show me (by naming post numbers or similar) where you have read the misunderstandings?

There are independent building consultants (at least for "prefab" houses, I have already mentioned colleagues here several times) who can provide you with a preselection, so you don’t compare a Mazda with a Maserati across the board. Often it only takes one conversation (or a few thread dialogues) for a professional to recognize which providers correspond to the building family by type. This way, statistical outliers can be prevented in advance. That costs far, far less than paying an architect to create a drafting template for the GC. The more significant comparability disruptor than differing dimensions are those in the construction service descriptions, against which a concretely fixed building volume does not help at all.
How close to the goal are you?

When builders are supposed to build according to building permit drawings, too many questions are still open or there is the risk that they will be resolved instead by the respective "method do-it-this-way." Without a slot in the wall, the downpipe is then laid in front and boxed in with drywall.

For the red pencil, the wish list would first have to be taken out of the fog.

Yes and no. The 140/145 sqm II+D SD35-38 semi-detached house of the usual suspects is about 6m wide per half in 12.5m depth, so the "eighty" threshold is not even close to being broken here; and here it is even allowed to be more generous in terms of the number of floors (although the OP has not yet sketched a verifiable house profile).
 

1689owen

2025-10-21 15:17:12
  • #4
I’m checking in after a longer “break,” as the experienced have already anticipated:

We didn’t want to crash and burn. Still, we’re kind of swimming around a bit helplessly (although it’s slowly getting better).

We have some agreements with construction companies and architects behind us, some are still ongoing. A plan that considers both our financial expectations and space requirements is still missing. We hope that we now better understand what is important to us.

-I’ll fill out the list that would actually have been helpful from the start. I’ll also report from the preliminary decision.
-Additionally, I’m attaching rough sketches of the plot [ERROR WITH THE GREY 14 in the middle, must be 16] (regardless, all figures are rather roughly rounded) and on the planned number of stories/setback areas.
-Some things are probably still missing – so please feel free to ask!
-At the end, I’ll list a few questions/ideas for further work.

Development plan/restrictions
Plot size
approx. 700 m²
Slope none
Site coverage ratio GRZ=0.4 (secured through preliminary decision)
Floor area ratio none
Building window, building line, and boundary see sketch; preliminary decision indicates that building up to the red lines is allowed (the corner plot may take advantage of the building boundaries of the two intersecting streets)
Edge development none
Number of parking spaces no requirements
Number of stories II + attic allowed
Roof shape no requirements
Architectural style no requirements
Orientation no requirements
Maximum heights/limitations no specific requirements, limited by setback areas
Other requirements none known
Additional requirements Hamburg has mandatory solar panels, also soundproofing due to aircraft noise

Client requirements
Style, roof shape, building type
Duplex with gable roof
Basement, number of floors No basement, II + attic, additionally a loft as storage above if possible
Number of persons, age each party: parents (mid-30s), three children (between 0 and 8)
Space requirements on the ground floor, upper floor (and attic): Each party needs living-dining area with kitchen, utility/tech room, guest bathroom (one party with shower), family bathroom, two children’s rooms immediately and later a third children’s room, parents’ bedroom, office (lots of home office)
Office: family usage or home office? Home office as mentioned above
Overnight guests per year Will vary, as relatives nearby may provide space; our wish would certainly be for more visits, but realistically that is currently not planable in space requirements
Open or closed architecture Living-dining area open; one party with open stairwell, the other closed
Conservative or modern construction? ?
Open kitchen, kitchen island Open kitchen, parts of the kitchen possibly as an island
Number of dining seats We often eat with up to 10 people
Fireplace No
Music/stereo wall No, also no TV in the living area
Balcony, roof terrace Currently excluded
Garage, carport Preferably garage/shed for many bicycles for both parties together, maybe later an additional carport
Garden design, utility garden, greenhouse: Terraces for both, a small utility bed, ornamental planting at the edge of the garden otherwise space for children to play
Other wishes kfw300

House design
More details hopefully coming in the next few weeks.
Personal price limit for the house, including equipment: Financing is realistically only possible with the kfw300 program within the stated range (400k€ maybe 420k€ per half including ancillary costs). Otherwise lower.
Favored heating technology: Air-water heat pump (kfw)

If you have to make concessions, on which details/expansions
-can you do without:
Rooms do not necessarily have to be large (apart from the living-dining area on the ground floor), small bedrooms for example are fine. In the thread, we talked about separability from the ground floor, which has now been discarded; otherwise one party would like a parents’ bathroom (idea: parents in attic with bedroom and their own bathroom), which they can also do without. Previously a roof terrace for one party was discussed, which they now gladly forgo in favor of the cheaper roof shape.
[-can’t you do without:[/I] Number of rooms.

Why is the design as it is now?
The idea for II + attic comes from needing a certain number of rooms. Also charming is that in a cost-related worst case, parts of the attic could be finished later by owner’s own effort. Originally, we planned II + recessed top floor with roof terrace, but that was more expensive in many offers. We can all live well with the gable roof, as long as there is enough room height in the middle area of the attic. Gable roof also has the advantage of storage space (knee walls, loft). We can’t afford a basement, and with II + attic and garage/shed we would at least have the space you need for all the stuff. Of course, one could also consider I + attic or II without attic. But we don’t like I + attic if there isn’t enough knee wall (so that you can basically stand everywhere), and both (I+attic and II without attic) would require larger floor areas per story, which would take garden space and more roof area (thus more costs). We also talked to architects, I don’t remember all the reasons now, but they also tend to prefer II+attic.

The driveway is supposed to be width x (approx. 3 meters, must be calculated as a setback), so as narrow as possible, because there is little sunlight here. Orientation N/S is not correct in the sketch, south is roughly left.

Number of stories is not a big issue as shown in the profile if the roof ridge runs parallel to the driveway. Then the setback areas can be calculated with (3+3+1/3*4)*0.4=2.94. Just as an example.


Maybe it’s somewhat easier now to apply the red pen. I think I can’t see the forest for the trees right now. Therefore I might have overlooked something – please just ask.

Here, I think, lies our main concern: Must it be the budget? How much must be increased? Actually not much is possible. Which idea of a duplex do we have to give up? Which wishes are explicitly or perhaps implicitly involved and should go into the trash bin?

And now some answers to some questions from :

There isn’t one yet. All catalog house modifications are too expensive for us. Architects are working on it and the first draft was way too big and therefore (estimated) clearly too expensive.

The inquiry aimed to find out the building boundaries and GRZ. See sketch.
The plot is divided at the party wall, does not have to be half and half.

Hopefully answered above. One children’s room can come later.


Financing advisor. That is our total volume. With kfw300 maybe a bit more (420k, for one party up to 450k). Without kfw rather less. Ancillary costs should be included, landscaping is possibly done later or through family own work/contributions.
 

nordanney

2025-10-21 15:33:20
  • #5

3x children's rooms = 33 sqm
1x master bedroom = 15 sqm
1x family bathroom = 15 sqm
1x hallway = 6 sqm
==> all on the upper floor = 69 sqm

The same living area then on the ground floor (including technical room and home office) = approx. 140 sqm at 3,000€ construction costs plus ancillary purchase costs, garage/carport, outdoor facilities/paving driveway/entrance, terrace. I think even the "cheap providers" (i.e. only basics) will not be an option given the requirements profile.
==> That does not fit the budget

I see only one way: massive personal contributions

Even if the third children's room is only needed "later," the space must come from somewhere.
 

Rübe1

2025-10-22 09:49:36
  • #6
Just my opinion:

Overnight guests/dinner guests: Are you building the house for yourselves or for your visitors? Do you have an idea of how often you can eat out/go to a hotel until the additional costs for these otherwise useless square meters are covered? Especially when the budget is limited, as it is here.

Again about the kfw: 300 is needed. With the PV requirement, that's 40+.

Then the D at least prepared for expansion (so at least insulated, ceiling, stairs, wiring etc. fixed and for 400 in Hamburg? No. Not with these individual wishes.

I just saw: the building window 12*18, is that the building window for the entire house or for half? I don’t quite understand the "site plan" if it’s supposed to be on 700 sqm...
 

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