No house building company - I gather everything myself

  • Erstellt am 2012-10-15 23:21:58

Bauexperte

2012-10-16 11:36:29
  • #1
Hello,


Then, in your place, I would first start by requesting the values of the "initial, in-house trades"; don’t you think? They can talk a lot - but that won’t get you anywhere, as you need reliable figures.

As a rough guideline for you, here are the approximate costs of these trades with normal contracting: architecture - stages 1 to 9 - €25,000.00 (of which roughly €8,500.00 is for site management), structural engineering €2,100.00, and thermal insulation verification €1,600.00. These figures are based on an estimated construction cost of €158,000 for a single-family house of 110 sqm living area as a KfW 70 efficiency house in Brandenburg. In this region, similar to Schleswig-Holstein and Lower Saxony, construction costs are somewhat cheaper.


I have already written elsewhere these days: beware of comparisons that do not last a day. The €130,000 alone is already unrealistic for a single-family home of the desired size - even in Brandenburg; and there is certainly no talk of a KfW efficiency house.


I can well understand your enthusiasm, but you should (still) not bathe in it!

I see the most potential for savings if you can get the engineering services for little money. However, it must be taken into account that these people also don’t live off gifts to third parties. The question is: do they do it at a friend’s price, and if so, within what time frame? All the engineering services required to build a single-family house - starting with the creation of the building application up to the calculation of the thermal insulation verification - take time and therefore cannot be completed hastily. Whether your site manager friend wants to forego a good €8,000, I cannot judge; he certainly won’t do it for free.

The next item is the tendering and awarding of the remaining trades - based on what bill of quantities? The "house construction price" thrown into the ring by the site manager serves most craftsmen only to avoid idle times; they do not generate most of their revenue with it, as the buyers of regional and supraregional providers understand their craft very well. And you should definitely not get involved in black (undeclared) contracts, like the motto: here you save VAT. That will be a very unpleasant awakening!

In my opinion, you should simulate two variants: get 1 - 3 "public" offers based on your desired floor plan and compare these - and only these, so that a comparison is even possible - with the values named to you by your colleagues. Only then is a reliable saving quantifiable. And – what I personally consider important: despite all the "collusion," and that’s what it is, it is important that an independent person monitors the construction project. Or do you want stress at work because, in the worst case, there is disagreement over who is probably responsible for an error?

I once learned never to realize a project with family or friends and have stuck to that to this day. It has always been right so far - whether this maxim does not apply to you, only you can decide :D

Best regards
 

Bauexperte

2012-10-16 11:43:07
  • #2
Addendum:

Construction price single-family house 110 sqm/LV as Kfw 70 efficiency house TEUR 158
Additional construction costs: TEUR 30
Reserve for possible increased foundation costs: TEUR 8
Painting work and floor coverings in EL: TEUR 10
Outdoor facilities in EL: TEUR 10
Finished garage 3 x 6 with sectional door: TEUR 8
Reserve for extras: TEUR 10

Kind regards
 

Häuslebauer40

2012-10-16 22:14:52
  • #3
If you have all the trades in your circle of friends and they work for an apple and an egg, I consider it quite possible to build the aforementioned house for under 90K.
 

barcuda

2012-10-17 01:05:02
  • #4
Hello everyone,
90,000 euros for a house with 110 sqm of living space - with (free) support from acquaintances - sounds tempting at first. But this only works if the "acquaintances" invest a lot of time without charging; otherwise, it is absolutely unrealistic. Are the acquaintances really willing to work many evenings and weekends without compensation over an extended period?

Regarding the formal side: The planning must be carried out by a licensed submitter (with a stamp), who also has to pay liability insurance etc., as well as the technical proofs such as structural analysis, thermal protection, etc. - these are usually people who have invested a lot of time in their qualification and have to make a living from it. Do they really pass on their experience for free? Supervision by a specialist construction manager for the essential trades (e.g., shell construction, electrics) must be verifiably confirmed - who does that? Scaffolding must be provided by a specialist company. Ignorance is no protection against punishment - no insurance covers that either.

By the way, if there is an increased proportion of personal contribution, insurance with a professional association (Knappschaft) must be taken out for possible accidents.

The crucial question is: What if defects occur? Who assumes liability for their work that was done free of charge as a friendly service? - I think, no one likes that. Can you expect or demand punctuality from acquaintances who work without payment? Is the professional competence guaranteed? Who keeps an eye on the whole thing?

Even if I am a "party pooper" with my questions here, personal contribution is OK if it is limited to a reasonable scope and clearly defined tasks that are, firstly, achievable and secondly, not critical regarding the warranty. Otherwise, there is a risk of a completely unclear mix of responsibilities.

From my experience, it is especially important to make clear agreements with acquaintances. Otherwise, acquaintances show up less and less if they are not paid, or if they are paid, there is no hoped-for friendly price.

My recommendation: Limit personal contributions to a realistic level that also enables a clear delimitation of services from professional construction companies - who can then also be held responsible in the event of damage.

What use is it - maybe - to save 20,000 euros if serious construction defects occur in an emergency and no one was responsible, the construction time drags on endlessly, friendships fall apart, and no compensation can be claimed for possible botched work - not to mention liability issues in the event of an accident?
 

karliseppel

2012-10-17 08:36:58
  • #5

Nice party pooper post :D I can only support your recommendation.

However, the above quote is not entirely correct. *As soon as* a helper other than the builder even lifts a finger, they must be registered with BG Bau within a week. This is mainly about statutory insurance coverage.

Furthermore, a SiGeKo must be appointed by the client. There is also a construction site ordinance, the requirements of which should regularly be met for a normal single-family house...
You see – there are plenty of obligations for a builder, where the legislator simply assumes that you should know this... it’s certainly not done by just putting up the construction site sign.
-ks
 

HowardS

2012-10-17 09:14:00
  • #6
Hey guys,

first of all, thank you all for the awesome support. A lot of people really answered.
Also, I don’t really see what’s meant by “party pooper post” here... on the contrary, that’s what we’re here for (at least I am) to learn something and gather information.
Yesterday we had the first "construction meeting" in the pub with beer and food :cool:. I’ll summarize briefly:
So the three trades, architect, structural engineering, and site management, are actually being gifted to me. So I really don’t have to pay anything for that... I was pretty stunned myself... they even said if I start throwing money around here now and want to pay, they wouldn’t do it... okay, then I quickly went quiet :p
Well, I pay the other trades normally with contract and invoice, etc. Only that we have to find them individually ourselves.
First of all, the architect has to draw, and the current plan foresees a roughly 108 m² 1.5-story house (i.e. ground floor and converted attic with about 60cm knee wall).

- The masonry is supposed to be "Wienerberger Poroton bricks" with a 36.5 cm wall thickness.
- Plaster or Eternit
- Plastic windows with internal muntins, partly flush with the floor
- Roller shutters
- Underfloor heating
- Air heat pump if price-wise and energetically reasonable
- Fireplace

so those are the key points. They reassured me about insurance and stamps and such, as long as a stamp is present and there is liability insurance with the architect. Since the executing trades are officially commissioned, the usual recourse applies, they told me.

Now it’s your turn to complain again :cool::D
 

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