New construction or buy house, built in '91

A 4 in front. That would make it possible to finance the new building in a better location with a garden and all additional costs.

What would need to be checked (without now looking up possibly mentioned details about the existing property in the thread). In our case, it is as follows: - Existing property with just under 180 m² living space, full basement, great garden, 600 m² plot size, super (!) location, standard land value 74 €/m² (IMHO too low; compare free plots are well above 100 €/m² sale price). ==> All-in after renovation (electrical, heating, sanitary, painting/flooring) just under 400,000 euros. - New building from (!) 100 €/m² land, depending on location/availability, realistic land prices ~100,000 euros (specific objects known). Now 300,000 euros remain for the house with all additional costs and the outdoor facilities. This new building will either be more expensive than the existing property or smaller without a basement and without a garden. (Possibly I can report later, we are currently planning the new building.) Ultimately, however, the individual case counts!

Hello Bieber,

100€/m² and 100,000€ for the land corresponds to an area of 1000m² of land. The TE wants to purchase 600m² in the new development area, so that's already 40K€ less in costs. For his two comparison properties, that fits pretty well or as far as one can judge from the keyboard.

- Existing property with just under 180 m² living space, full basement, great garden, 600 m² land area, super (!) location, standard land value 74 €/m² (IMHO too low; compare free plots clearly priced above 100 €/m² selling price). ==> All-in after renovation (electrical, heating, sanitary, painting/flooring) just under 400,000 euros.

That is one cost estimate, right? You also have to deduct (at least) about 40-50K€ here for the smaller/larger plot of land, because the new build would have 400m² more garden. If the building plot also had "only" 600m², then approx. 40K€ more for the house would be available immediately or much more capital is tied up in the land and thus in a significantly better location.

The standard land value does not come out of nowhere, but is based on purchases made in that area over the last years. If you say that there is a super location for 74€ standard land value and the new development area or free plots are traded at 100€++, then the location there is not only super, but super-super; so definitely significantly better than in the 74€ zone. (Or the sellers' price expectations are astronomical.)

Whether one or the other location can be used by a buyer must be looked at in detail. On top of that comes the individual consideration of the existing property, whereby comparability is quite difficult. With the key data as above, my own property (purchase/renovation 2011) fares quite well in cost comparison; but I hardly believe that both properties can actually be compared.

Best regards
Dirk Grafe

Dirk, about the property. I recently saw some specific plots of land (all quite good locations). There were plots with 450 to 600 m² and ones with 800 to 1200 m². Strangely, the price was always around 100,000 euros. The point is, I can't buy half of the large plot for half the price, that's not possible. Otherwise, I can agree with your idea, no question.

The 400,000 euros are based on the asking sale price, the calculated incidental costs, and quotes from all necessary trades (I would say accuracy +20%/-10%).

The standard land value of 74 euros/m² is IMHO outdated, at least much too low. If the plot were free and buildable and belonged to me, I would ask for 200 euros/m² -- and get it (I bet a case of beer on that). It is expected that building land will soon be created three streets away. This will (very likely) be traded at >100 euros/m² (I calculate 120 euros/m² or more). I know the area very well personally ... Maybe I’m confusing something between standard land value, market value, and traffic value??

Oh, and the location of the 74 euro BRR is definitely better than that of "our" plot, which is now supposed to cost 100 euros/m². And yes, the seller has a very ambitious idea of the price. It’s no coincidence that we are now alternatively considering the new build.

That leads off-topic now ... Where you are absolutely right: The comparison new/old only really works when applied to specific objects and considering the living conditions of the buyers. And the houses will always differ, charm vs. state-of-the-art technology, and so on and so forth.

Then buy the 1200 sqm plot for €100K, split it into 2 plots of 600 sqm each, sell one half for €200/sqm, ergo €120K income ... and realize that no one will pay you €200/sqm.

If they do: minus surveying costs about €15K net profit for you, your own plot would be free.

You don't really believe that works, do you?

Maybe I'm confusing something between standard land value, market value, and traffic value??

No. Much more is going wrong, but that's hardly fixable over the internet/forum. I can only strongly recommend that you seek advice from experts and/or local architects. I am quite sure they will bring you back to reality very quickly.

Best regards Dirk Grafe

Then buy the 1200 sqm plot for €100K, split it into 2 plots of 600 sqm each, sell one half for €200/sqm, ergo €120K income ... and realize that no one will pay you €200/sqm.

One of the 600 sqm parcels would have no access to the street, so I already understand that this won’t work (also, I do not expect a price significantly above €100/sqm there; it is somewhat further out). Where the building plot is offered for €100/sqm, the standard land value today is €81/sqm. (Then there’s another, even more central location where building land is offered to us at €200/sqm. There, the standard land value is €109/sqm).

For the used house, the asking sale price is too high — in my view, that will fail. But I can do nothing about it (other than reject, hence the plan for new construction). If you have something else in mind, feel free to contact me by private message, I’m happy to learn more!

One of the 600 m² plots would have no access to the street,

Nonsense. There are several solutions for that, and they can be explained in 5 minutes.

therefore I am already aware that this is not possible (also I do not expect a price significantly above 100 euros/m² there; it is a bit further out). Where the building plot is offered for 100 euros/m², the official land value today is 81 euros/m². (Then there is another, even more central location where we are offered building land at 200 euros/m². There the official land value is 109 euros/m²).

For the used house, the asking sales price is too high – in my view, that will go wrong. But I can do nothing about it (except decline, hence the planning of the new build). If you have other ideas, feel free to contact me via private message, I’m happy to learn!

Negotiate down.

Best regards
Dirk Grafe