Electric surface heating (Thermoheld) in KFW 40 bungalow with 80 sqm

  • Erstellt am 2023-10-01 13:42:04

KarstenausNRW

2023-10-01 19:05:52
  • #1
Yes, the efficiency is not outstanding. But given the size of the house and its efficiency, that is not tragic. The additional investment of several tens of thousands of euros for a heat pump with underfloor heating will never pay off. House size combined with KfW 40 will result in somewhere between 1,500 and a maximum of 2,000 kWh electricity consumption. At current electricity prices of about 25 cents per kWh, that's between €375 and a maximum of €500. Photovoltaic yields are not considered. That's why my objection that the heating technology does not have much financial impact. A 20% higher consumption, i.e., €100 per year, adds up to only €2,000 over 20 years (without electricity price increases). That's bearable if the heat pump + underfloor heating perhaps costs €20,000 more than the air-to-air heat pump. You also wrote that the water-based underfloor heating heats up quickly. That is a misconception. Water-based underfloor heating in screed is mega slow. You only notice changes in room temperature after several hours/overnight. At least if you only have a maximum of 30 degrees as the supply temperature in the deepest winter. That is the slowest heating form you can choose. But in a KfW 40 house, you lose only 1 degree overnight if the heating fails.
 

eenuep1

2023-10-01 19:32:50
  • #2


Thanks for the calculation details!

I first have to find out what the air-water heat pump and (if possible) air-air heat pump would cost & what energy demand is present.

As I said, the provider normally only installs their own electric surface heaters (see picture) and water-based underfloor heating usually only if district heating is available (due to the low energy demand?).
 

eenuep1

2023-10-01 19:38:04
  • #3
Their heating system would be included in the price - therefore I have to see if the extra cost is worth it just for the air-to-air heat pump, especially if the system is not much more efficient. Regardless, I unfortunately have no experience with air-to-air heat pumps/split air conditioning units and therefore cannot assess whether I like the system in terms of room air (e.g. dry or draft). I am rather sensitive to both (mucous membranes & eyes). Noise-wise, the infrared/electric panel heating would of course be a plus.
 

eenuep1

2023-10-01 21:32:05
  • #4
I just had another thought: besides variants A (air-water heat pump) and B (air-air heat pump), also

C (electrical surface heating, included in the price) but larger photovoltaic system:
- 3,000 kWh energy demand in the heating period (2,000 kWh heating energy demand + 1,000 kWh useful energy demand)
- roof area of the house facing south: 58-77 sqm (yields 2,500-3,400 kWh output in the heating period)
- costs according to the house manufacturer for photovoltaic + storage with 11.7 or 15.6 kWp photovoltaic system: €22.5K or €27K respectively

That means, instead of choosing the upgrade to another heating system, I could simply pay the approximately €7K additional cost for the 9.1 kWp system and cover my entire heating energy demand myself, have no problem with possibly dry air/drafts (air-air heat pump?), and not have the noise emission of the air-water heat pump for overall less extra investment.

It is well known that it always makes sense to stay "close" to the manufacturer's standard equipment; everything else is charged expensively because they cannot distribute the planning costs over a large number of customers (modular construction).
 

RotorMotor

2023-10-01 22:17:31
  • #5
A larger photovoltaic system is often a good idea. However, the basic problem remains that the heating usually runs when the sun is not (well) shining. You can also simulate this with pvgis. So even with a large photovoltaic system, a heat pump can still have advantages!
 

eenuep1

2023-10-02 00:07:07
  • #6
Thank you for the renewed hint to PVGis, it helped to visually see the low energy generation in winter. According to PVGis, for the period Nov-Feb, an 11.7-15.6 kWp photovoltaic system with 18° tilt should deliver 1,440 - 1,920 kWh at my place. Heating energy demand Nov-Feb KFW 40: approx. 1,400 of the 2,000 kWh, useful energy demand Nov-Feb 500 kWh. That means I need 1,900 energy demand, so I should opt for the 15.7 kWp photovoltaic system + storage (€27k). And after one year, as soon as I have experience values, I could retrofit an air conditioning system (=air-to-air heat pump/split air conditioner?), in case my photovoltaic yield is still not enough for heating + useful energy, right? The good thing is: With this floor plan (see attachment), an air conditioning system would probably suffice to heat the living space + bathroom (open door), I think – and in the bathroom and everywhere else I also have the electric ceiling radiant heating.
 

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