Architect cost estimation experiences?

Good morning, I am curious to see how this topic will develop here. The calculation shows enormous costs.

We have been renovating our old building from 1952 since January. The cost estimate from the energy consultant, which was confirmed by another independent party, has so far been significantly higher than the offers we actually have.

As an example, the estimate for the insulation and renewal of the facade (approx. 160 sqm) was just under 80,000 - the offer is 54,000. He roughly estimated renewing the water pipes at 20,000 (in conversation, they are not part of his service as an energy consultant), the offer is now 11,000.

But it must be said that we are deliberately installing the water pipes efficiently and forgoing any fancy features. The facade will also receive Cedral panels. So nothing special, as we have to watch the costs.

Of course, all offers are formulated subject to the actual expenses, and what we will finally pay we will see over the course of the year.

In any case, I wish you much success with the project and that it all works out well.

What stands out to me are the high amounts for plastering work, glazing work, and the heating system. He should just be more specific here. What does that include? Also, I wonder what locksmith work is necessary for 10K? And 11K to set up scaffolding? You can easily buy 2 used ones for that, and I think you can still find someone to set it up. Of course, it also always depends on where you are in Germany. But to me, it looks like the architect has never awarded a contract himself and has no experience at all.

Is the architect experienced in the field of renovation?

You should be aware that a (real) complete renovation plus an extension is rather more expensive than cheaper compared to new construction. If you are lucky, you will end up costing about the same as a new build. It is significantly more complex to dismantle the old stuff and then meticulously and laboriously fit new elements than to start from scratch on a greenfield site. However, I still consider the estimated costs to be too high.
Basically, you can roughly estimate using the new construction price. That would be about 170 sqm x 3500€, so approximately 600k€.

We have already consulted with the architect; he also cannot explain the high costs.

For 93k, one can probably expect that the nice gentleman can explain his invoice. After all, it is HIS invoice that HE issues to you as CUSTOMERS. And for this service, he receives a huge pile of money. Operating such an Excel tool and then saying "sorry, I don't know" is surely not acceptable from a "professional." Then he should just take a closer look in detail and compare it with other renovations; for that money, some effort can certainly be expected. The heating alone is probably 20-30k too expensive. However, somewhere it also says geothermal energy, which is more expensive, but that can be safely ignored. As mentioned here, I would start with 170sqm × 3-3.5k = 500-600k. A new roof frame with a dormer and 2 extensions doesn’t sound like a budget program either, but it certainly won’t be much more expensive than a new build. Although, 100k for an architect will still be added, what a bargain.

I am in favor of fair compensation for (good) architects and am not familiar with HOAI regarding renovation, but >90k net with costs of something over 500k in KG300+400 seems to me quite high as well

What kind of lunatic is that? 93k€ net for the architect. Is that a joke?

A 3 middle grade and the structural engineer gets a 2 middle grade, I would find the justification interesting.