Underfloor heating and mechanical ventilation with heat recovery (MVHR), replacement of ordinary radiators

These are important pieces of information for me! Thank you.

So, as suspected, the heating systems offered in the brochures are mostly poorly sized. I wanted to go to a FH exhibition over the weekend and ask targeted questions there. But whether the salesperson can give me correct answers to questions about the heating system at all is another matter.

So, is your recommendation for me to have the entire heating system + controlled residential ventilation with WRG already removed from a possible offer in advance?

....Wanted to go to a FH exhibition on the weekend and already ask targeted questions there. But whether the salesperson can give me correct answers to questions like the heating system at all is another matter.

For sure Record the answers!

...So is your recommendation for me to have the complete heating system + controlled residential ventilation with heat recovery removed upfront in a possible offer?

That would be mine! Downgrading is usually more expensive than upgrading with a general contractor! One should definitely give regional general contractors a real chance here. It usually makes sense to demand a closed shell construction. Exclude TGA. The local provider can be involved again in the interior work (plaster, screed, interior doors, electrical, etc.). It is not unwise to offer this prospect during price negotiations Overall a bit more tedious for the builder compared to signing (all inclusive), but certainly much more efficient in the long run (consumption costs).

Best regards

In bathrooms, additional WH areas or other energy sources are often required.

In the bathroom, I think a radiator for towels makes sense. How about other energy sources? What is conceivable there?

Dismantling is usually more expensive than upgrading with a general contractor

Did I understand you correctly?
Does that mean that if I request an FH with heating and then remove the heating, I end up paying more than if I say from the beginning that I want an offer without heating?

In the bathroom, I think a radiator for the towels makes sense. What about other energy sources? What is conceivable there?

Bathroom radiators cannot deliver the planned heating output at all, as long as they are covered with towels. My remark referred to heat pumps as heat generators. Bathrooms usually have the highest specific heating load (high room temperature, small area). Here, the available area (underfloor heating) is usually no longer sufficient if "heat pump-friendly" supply temperatures are to be implemented. Additional radiators or, for example, infrared heaters are often necessary.

...that means if I were to have a single-family house with heating offered to me. And then remove the heating, I end up paying more in the end than if I had said from the beginning that I want an offer without heating?

More or less. Better another wording. The credits for the removal of services are so low that you could not buy them on the open market with this. There are two reasons for this:
1. The original calculation of the provider is unsettled. After all, he calculated with 100% service acceptance.
2. With this, they want to "persuade" the customer to 100% service acceptance.
The further you move away from your own ideas of the standard offer, the less favorable it is. Therefore, one tends to upgrade a closed shell rather than downgrade a complete offer.

best regards

Hello €uro,

Something like that. A better wording. The credits for the elimination of services are so low that you couldn't buy them on the open market with this. There are two reasons for this:
1. The original calculation of the provider becomes shaky. After all, they calculated with 100% performance acceptance.
2. With this, they want to "persuade" the customer to accept 100% performance
The further one moves away from one's own ideas of the off-the-shelf offer, the less favorable it is. Therefore, a closed shell is more likely to be upgraded than a complete offer to be downgraded.

at this point you are not exactly helpful This topic recurs, both here in the forum and in my daily work as a construction consultant.

Every contract belongs to "2", in words "two". More precisely, one who "does" and one who "allows". It is not exclusively the evil builder (BU) who sets the rules you criticize; it is rather a special type of builder (greed is cool sends greetings) who practically demands them; many providers live from this – also often called cheap providers by you and me. If a certain type of builder expects to get a luxury car at the price of a Chinese import, researches more about buying a refrigerator, and all clarification/warnings do not help – then they must not be surprised afterward! Even the bargain hunters keep proper accounts; debits and credits must at least balance at the end of the year...

For several months now, I have also been preparing evaluations of construction documents. With regular recurrence, I point out statements in the building description that roughly read: "If services are removed from the scope of delivery after contract signing, the signer hereby agrees without objection to the repurchase/credit amount." If, despite urgent notice by the builders, nothing changes in the wording of the contract, negotiations – and I do not need a crystal ball to know why not – are stopped – then who is to blame? Or is it perhaps a business of mutual consent?

By the way – the "realistically" calculating portion of builders is very rarely found with negative experiences in forums or in the media

Kind regards

.... It is not exclusively the evil BU who sets the rules of the game you criticized,...

I did not criticize anything, but merely stated facts without making any judgment. So no sign of evil BU at this point, as there are economic necessities.

...., more research is done before buying a refrigerator, all explaining/warning does not help - they must not be surprised afterwards!

I wholeheartedly agree.

v.g.