The Old Suffering - Turnkey/Individual Contract

  • Erstellt am 2014-11-06 09:52:00

DerBjoern

2014-11-10 21:07:38
  • #1


It is a matter of negotiation
 

Bauexperte

2014-11-11 01:05:01
  • #2
Good evening,


I believe yesterday was not your day?

Because when I look at this "indicates that you have little knowledge about the work of an architect" (from post #27 and with all due respect, you did not understand the core message correctly) and compare this with Yvonne’s reaction "But you don’t really want to read, instead you just dismiss things generally or put the architect down. That a general contractor is equivalent but just different, you simply do not accept...." (from post #31), you two are not that far apart after all. Only – unlike you, Yvonne did not tell you to keep your ideas and thoughts to yourself.

For you, it was the best choice to plan your construction project with an architect; obviously, you were also lucky to get a good and patient specimen. Great, I’m happy for you! But that doesn’t mean that it is the ultimate recommendation for every builder, nor that the majority of providers consist of botchers. Most builders want a temporary construction partner who, if possible, takes all decisions regarding execution off their hands. The way you conduct your construction project reflects the rather very rare category of builder... maybe a mechanical engineer or another type of engineer?

This description "An architect is indeed responsible, for example, to ensure that no thermal bridges occur. Only he has the overall view...." (from post #27) by the way applies only if the architect is also the construction manager (maybe even the structural engineer). Otherwise, the original construction manager is responsible for overseeing these matters or an external expert; often in frequent consultation with the architect (creator of the execution plans) and/or structural engineer.

This "And if you think that craftsmen build according to today’s state of the art, you are very, very naive. There may be exceptions, but regarding further training and knowledge of new technical rules, standards, and guidelines, craftsmen are generally not role models..." (from post #27) is quite strong stuff, and I wonder why the craftsmen writing here don't jump down your throat.

Now I happen to know that Berlin is a playground of very charming specimens of the general contractor/general builder category. Logically, in the capital, everyone who considers themselves somebody must be represented; ergo also the cut-rate providers and also those who proudly claim a more eastern domain or even owe allegiance to the Isle of Man. Furthermore, it is also true that craftsmen are very busy and it is not easy to schedule appointments with them. BUT – even in Berlin there are more good than bad examples; this applies by the way to the entire country.

Maybe at the beginning of your search for a construction partner you only asked the wrong providers? Because there really are construction managers who have not even learned the trade of a bricklayer or carpenter, let alone know what further training is good for. By the way, this also applies to quite a few architects who prefer to draw beautifully rather than inspecting a construction site from the inside. And likewise to salespeople who have simply climbed the career ladder from grocery store cashier to house salesman... just like that.

BUT – whether in Berlin or elsewhere: every potential builder is the architect of their own fortune. All options are open to them to check the potential construction partner (including architects). Only – how silly, it costs money and that money is rather spent on supposedly better equipment. True to the Rhineland motto: "it has always gone well so far"... only it rarely works when a lot of money is involved.

And just as all checking mechanisms are available to the potential builder, so too does he have the choice between architect or general contractor/general builder or smaller builder contractor. Only – no one should generalize from their own experience to others in this – very personal – decision... dat hätte noch nie joot jejange

Rhineland greetings
 

klblb

2014-11-11 09:22:03
  • #3


You are wrong about that, as well as about my professional background (which is irrelevant, but has nothing to do with the construction industry) and the assumptions about my "Baupartnersuche". I can use a well-functioning network of architects, specialized engineers, and craftsmen.

I stand by my statements regarding architects and craftsmen. Regarding the craftsmen, I deliberately wrote "There may be exceptions".

And yes, everyone is the architect of their own fortune. You are right about that.
 

Bauexperte

2014-11-11 10:12:02
  • #4
Good morning,


But you are aware that I wanted to build a bridge for you? Normally your posts are free from any form of judgment

Rhenish greetings
 

Bauherren2014

2014-11-11 11:03:33
  • #5
Hello construction expert,

I am very glad about the contribution you wrote. And I cannot understand why people here almost "snap" at each other regarding the topic GU vs. architect.

As you yourselves already write, everyone is the architect of their own fortune. But that does not necessarily mean that one is better than the other. Yes, we also built with an architect, but that is certainly not a cure-all.

Just as there are good or bad architects, there are good and bad GUs. In the end, it is always a gut decision and also depends on how much I want and can get involved during the construction. A turnkey construction can be just as good as a house built with individual trade contracts. I honestly find your ( ) contribution on the topic of craftsmen quite off. Certainly, there are those who do not value further education and development much or are simply not up to date, but such people exist in every industry. I myself have met many (almost exclusively) competent craftsmen and cannot imagine that these were just exceptions. And no, I do not come from the construction industry, but my husband and parts of the family do, so I believe they can form a certain judgment on this.
 

Bauexperte

2014-11-11 11:26:05
  • #6
Good morning,


Thank you

This often happens when users have been active in the forum for a while, regardless of the topic – I always call it forum fatigue (that's why I asked klblb about the lost good mood). Whenever this happens, I write a bit more detailed because I want to avoid that others, on the one hand, jump on the bandwagon and, on the other hand, hoping that users prefer to read their posts once too often rather than too little before clicking "send."

Additionally, everyone can post here anonymously; of course, every user is free to post with their real name; how many make use of that you can see on the respective profile. Unfortunately, anonymity often leads to good manners eventually being swept under the carpet in varying degrees. This morning there is an interesting report on heute.de about dismissals due to posts on Facebook & Co. A key sentence of this report reads: "As a rule of thumb: What you wouldn't say to someone's face doesn't belong on the internet either." Well-known and yet unfortunately must be repeated again and again...

To be fair, I would like to point out that there are construction forums where it gets far rougher than here; only, what speaks against working towards the optimum?

Foolish greetings
 

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