Is an architect really that expensive?

: No, of course it doesn’t refer to that. We have found 2 more providers who are about 10 percent cheaper. We are now at 1,280 EUR/sqm for 2 full floors plus hip roof. That includes everything from architectural services, structural engineer, thermal insulation certificate, surveying (!), consumption costs for construction water/construction electricity, earthworks, foundation, base slab up to blower-door test. Missing are floor coverings, painting work, controlled residential ventilation, surcharge for electric roller shutters (190 EUR per window including motor, control next to the door, installation, electrics, etc.). Included in the price are about 50 sockets, network cabling for almost all rooms (living, children’s, bedroom, guest, work), tinted windows (instead of just white) and all interior walls are solid masonry.

And Sebastian, now you want to tell me that you come to less than 1,280 EUR/sqm without floor coverings and painting work and without the costs of your controlled residential ventilation but including the entire architectural fees as well as structural engineer, surveyor, etc.?

Just the architect, the structural engineer (structural engineering + thermal insulation certificate) and the surveyor alone make up 200 EUR/sqm if you calculate it that way. That leaves you less than 1,100 EUR/sqm for the house to be price comparative. I’m happy to be proven wrong here if you have some facts, but I hardly believe it.

No, they are around 1600 euros - but not with such minimal equipment. And then EVERYTHING is included. That’s the problem I described, that it’s hard to compare - but your description shows me rather a cheap house, where even massive interior walls are emphasized... And structural engineer/surveyor/architect don’t even come close to 200 euros/m2 - not even half.

I’m not saying that we stick to the minimum equipment either. But to go from 1,280 EUR to 1,600 EUR, you really need many, many, many extras.

Are the costs for the architect, structural engineer, and surveyor included in the 1,600 EUR/sqm? But your own contributions as well, then cost-reducing?

Why don’t structural engineers/surveyors/architects make 100 EUR/m2? 150 sqm (!?) times 1,500 EUR is 225,000 EUR. The minimum fee for the architect is then around 28,000 EUR for all service phases including incidental costs/VAT = 187 EUR/sqm.

oh yes, what does minimum equipment mean to you and what did you do differently?

Commonly, with 1800-2000 euros you just get "standard" – no matter what that means....

We have 250 sqm including the basement living area and yes, I did say that all costs are included. And yes, own work is included in that. The architect doesn’t do all service phases – only the most important tenders were done.

For me, the minimum equipment is 50 sockets – according to the "series" you don’t have more than that. I have almost three times that number plus about 50 network sockets. And then I installed a few little special features.

I don't see a living basement in the picture, a living basement has proper, large windows on all sides. Room height at least 2.50m? You are really comparing apples to oranges here. Calculate your 400,000 EUR minus 80,000 EUR for an insulated, heated basement with electrical/ventilation/etc., and then 320,000 EUR on 250*2/3= 167sqm -> 1,916 EUR/sqm. That is also realistic – exactly for an architect-designed house. But you can't include the basement.

Good evening,

It depends on what you want – at least with every craft business you have a say and can decide for yourself whether price or quality should be the priority.

I partly agree with you; insofar as you have a say in the equipment, but not regarding the performance according to the current state of the respective valid technology in construction. Accordingly, the "negotiable" scope when choosing a craft business is limited exclusively to the equipment they offer. Based on experience, freely chosen craft businesses are not significantly cheaper than their "bound" colleagues; on the contrary, they are happy to charge a wage corresponding to their performance.

However, this topic – as interesting as the discussion is – should, in my humble opinion, always be discussed with personal reference. Just as there is no such thing as "the" stone, there is no universally valid procedure when choosing a temporary construction partner. What is right for you does not necessarily have to be the right decision for another builder. Life is colorful

By the way, expensive does not always mean better.

That is true. If we can agree that every service has its value, then you will surely also agree with me that – conversely – something very cheap often turns out to be very expensive in the end

.... Price discounts of 50 percent compared to the request from Mrs. Müller, the client, are certainly not uncommon.

General contractor (GC) usually means the shell builder, and the rest of the trades are procured through long-standing partners. Sometimes one or two other trades are also found under the roof of the construction company; but that’s about it in general. Mrs. Müller will not be purchasing 50% more expensively right now, just as the GC does not want to alienate their masons through stinginess; they do well to bind good staff to their company in the long term.

It is true that there are price negotiations between the GC and a known supplier (pick one) at the end of the year regarding expected quantities. Even if some here have to "lose face" apparently, they save on expensive advertising budgets, architects, and structural engineers as a trade-off; meaning, they not only secure an annual quota of constructions, they get contracts delivered free of charge. So, if I had to estimate, I would assume that Mrs. Müller pays between 15 and 20% more if she does not build through a GC. If Mrs. Müller decides to realize her house construction through an architect, it is likely another 10 to 15%.

Always provided apples are compared to apples and no services are provided in EL.

Rhenish greetings