Heat pump is not compatible with a water-bearing fireplace

  • Erstellt am 2023-10-20 18:54:17

Jessica388

2023-10-20 18:54:17
  • #1
Hello everyone,
I hope we get some help here somehow, because our heating engineer doesn't seem to be able to do so...
Key data
New building 2022 with 250 m2
Heat pump Viessmann Vitocal 200-A
Multifunction storage MFS1000S
Water-guided stove with output on the water side of 8 kW
Photovoltaic system
Heating rod

I am sending you the layout of the storage in the attachment.
The stove was first connected under “old” and has now been converted.
Now everything works as long as the underfloor heating is off.
Now the underfloor heating is on and our hot water does not go above approximately 55 degrees.
If the underfloor heating is off, we have between 65-75 degrees, either through the heating rod when the sun is shining or by stoking the stove.
But now this energy seems to dissipate. It can’t be that the underfloor heating needs 70 degrees for its supply line of 35 degrees?! The water returning is only slightly cooler. So it must be heated by a maximum of 5 degrees.
Now we assume that a) either something is still connected incorrectly or b) the cold water from the underfloor heating causes such a circulation that the hot water cools down within minutes.
What can be done about that?
Has anyone had similar problems?
Normally we should hardly need any electricity, but currently the heat pump switches on almost hourly and makes hot water...
 

RotorMotor

2023-10-20 19:24:01
  • #2
What exactly is your problem? So is there a real problem, or is it just that you can't imagine that many tons of screed can't cool down such a small storage quickly? How is the heating circuit connected? Is there a mixer and a separate pump available?
 

Jessica388

2023-10-20 19:31:34
  • #3
Yes, we probably can't imagine that. Because if I have 75 degrees and in the underfloor heating there is always only a loss of 5 degrees, it just has to compensate for that, right? I'm sorry if I ask such a stupid question, I am an industrial clerk and have no idea about the subject. I don't know what you mean by how the heating circuit is connected. Here is another picture. We have a pump for the underfloor heating and one for the stove.
 

RotorMotor

2023-10-20 19:49:29
  • #4

Can you imagine it easier if you simply take 5 times 5 degrees from the storage?
So basically, with each complete cycle through the screed, 5 degrees are missing in the storage.
Of course, this is not stepwise but a continuous process, but heat is constantly transferred from the storage to the screed.

1 ton of water storage to 30 tons of screed.
That means roughly (simplified), if I cool down the storage by 30 degrees, the screed has only become one degree warmer.
 

Buchsbaum

2023-10-20 22:17:39
  • #5
I am a layman and will try to explain. Please don’t take it too seriously. I don’t have much knowledge about the subject of heat pumps.

You have a buffer tank with a heating element, a supply and return line for the fireplace, and a supply and return line for the heat pump.

You draw your hot water from part of the buffer tank. The hot water should have a temperature of at least 55, preferably 65 degrees.
When do you heat the fireplace? Surely not at 20 degrees outside temperature. What if, like today, there is no sun and the photovoltaic yield is almost zero.

Theoretically, everything sounds good. I would have installed the hot water generation and the heat pump separately. Technically, your hot water generation works like a flow heater. So today your hot water is generated electrically. I assume that the heat pump tries to help generate the hot water.

I think there are problems here with the control system, priority switching, etc.

Your buffer tank consists of 3 parts: the heating water storage, the solar heat exchanger, and the domestic hot water heat exchanger.
It is surprising that your domestic hot water heat exchanger only has a volume of 56 liters. The solar heat exchanger only has a capacity of 17 liters. Two heating elements are supposed to be installed, each with 9 kW. So if your hot water is heated on the fly, the electricity meter runs at 18 kW. You certainly have a cheap electricity provider. Or you shower little.

The fireplace only heats into the heating circuit. The heat pump supply will always keep the water at 35 degrees supply temperature. And you have 250 sqm living space. The water will cool down more than just 5 degrees. When I heat with 50 degrees supply temperature, about 20 degrees return temperature arrives at the oil heating system. The heat must also come from somewhere in the house and underfloor heating is just a large heat exchanger.

8 kW heating power of the fireplace is very little when also heating water.

At least you were smart enough to have a fireplace installed. Many don’t have one. When I come home frozen from skiing in winter, I want to sit by a warm fireplace or at least a hot radiator and not in a minimally tempered house. You do age too. I am old enough and can very well decide for myself how to heat. I don’t need green moralists who can fly somewhere for 50 euros but want me to save the world climate with my heating. No thanks.
 

Jessica388

2023-10-21 08:40:54
  • #6

Yes, you are right. And we suspect that we were wrongly advised. At first we wanted a wood chip heating system, but as a woman I eventually saw the disadvantages alone.. because both would run at high temperatures, we believe that we would not have these problems.
 

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