Extension to the parental home: questions about inheritance and land division

  • Erstellt am 2016-08-10 15:30:35

86bibo

2016-08-11 15:04:05
  • #1
The question is when you could pay out your brother. If that is at the earliest in 20 years, I would seriously reconsider the whole setup. What happens if your parents unexpectedly die in 5 years? Then a solution is needed, and finding tenants for an old, unrenovated house is also difficult. Whether your brother then wants to invest there or would prefer to sell is a good question. Overall, you should ask yourself if the house (including the parental home) is ultimately worth €600,000 to you. That is the price as of today that it will cost you. Eventually, you either have to pay out your brother, or you may only own a part of the house on half the plot. You cannot make any decisions alone, and who will own the rest someday is not secured (maybe your brother will need money at some point).

May I ask where this high sum for the extension comes from? Is the parental home also being renovated there?
 

DG

2016-08-11 20:18:24
  • #2


Please send me the address of the property via PM, I'll take a look at it.



Ok, but in the event of inheritance you both own half of the parental house – your brother then cannot use it alone unless you renounce your inheritance share. Together you can only rent it out.



If the parcel is not divided, it remains a single land registry entry, but your name will be listed in the land register alongside your parents'. One parcel – at least two owners, presumably three: you and your parents. The local and value-based division will then be shown in the subdivision plan or the shares in the parcel will be listed as percentages in the land register. So you (after paying out your brother) with 50%, your parents jointly also 50%.



The inheritance case can always occur. However, that is no reason to leave 1000 m² of building land unused for decades.



But that is no obstacle. If necessary, demolition and you get another 1000 m² of freely available building land.



No. He pays 50,000 Euros for his building plot and 350,000 Euros for his house – that is a total of 400,000 Euros. In case of inheritance, another 75,000 Euros fall to him, most of it in the form of building land (50,000 Euros). To pay out his brother then, he would need to provide another 75,000 Euros but would then have a total value (as of today) of 600,000 Euros – for which he however only paid 475,000 Euros. The "missing" 125,000 Euros does not just coincidentally correspond to half of the current appraised value, since he pays nothing for his inheritance.



The solution with the half parental house is not particularly advantageous but can be elegantly solved in case of inheritance by renouncing your own share. However, this should be discussed with a notary.

That anyone acquires 50% of such a (parental) house to operate it as a rental property is, in my opinion, almost excluded – the brother’s half is more or less unsellable if the other does not cooperate. But that is nothing unusual either.



He is simply building a complete house for 350,000 Euros as an extension – this is not an "extension" in the classical sense but is built as a semi-detached house, only that one house dates from 1936 and the new one from 2017.

Best regards
Dirk Grafe
 

86bibo

2016-08-12 08:20:33
  • #3


In the end, the house actually costs him €600,000, since if he were to build somewhere else, he would eventually inherit the €125,000 and could either make a special repayment or invest it elsewhere. Of course, it’s a bit more complicated since no one knows the value development, and on the one hand the timing (€125,000 now or €125,000 in maybe 20 years) also has a significant impact.

I believe you that the land has a great location and that living next to your parents also has advantages. But I would definitely not invest so much money in land that doesn’t belong to me. Maybe I am too pessimistic about that, but here everyone discusses fixed interest periods of 10, 15, 20 or xxx years and how much risk they want to take. But in such a constellation, there are many, many more unknowns.

Yes, there are similar cases daily where something like this is done, but 90% of those are renovations or additions where the total value of the property is increased and multi-generational houses are created. That is usually significantly cheaper than a new build. I also have two friends who built a second house on their parents’ land. But here, it’s actually not about an addition but about a new house, which unfortunately is attached to an old one. That means it is not cheaper than a single-family house, but on the other hand it has a run-down annex. You can do a lot, but clarify these things now and not in 20 years.

Such "negotiations" cause tensions even in the best families and if we are honest, there is only one fair solution for everyone, and that would be to pay out your brother. But that is not possible, so you have to find a compromise that everyone is happy with. As of today, it is not a good solution for either you or your brother. You get your inheritance now (even if only partially) and your brother gets nothing, maybe only when he has paid off a house himself. For that, you don’t know what will happen to the land where your house stands after your parents’ death. That would not be a solution for me.

Another scenario: What if you split from your partner? Is this partner also involved in the investment? What then are the ownership conditions? What happens if a possible new partner is incompatible with your parents?

Every house builder has to ask themselves these questions, but usually one is jointly liable then. Here your partner would then own half of an addition on foreign land. If she were completely out of the financing, she would be the one left out in the end. She supports the project now and ends up with nothing.
 

DG

2016-08-12 10:45:04
  • #4


Nonsense.

If he builds externally in a comparable way, the land costs him 100K€, the house 350K€, so a total of 450K€.

In the event of inheritance, he recovers about +100K€ and ends up with 350K€. How an engineer can fail to understand this is beyond me.



This has nothing to do with the fundamental consideration. The statement that his house costs 600K€ is simply outrageous.



It isn't; the price is far too low for that, especially by Krefeld standards. That is a price easily exceeded in any village with 10,000 inhabitants.



Repeating the same thinking errors over and over again does not lead to an adequate result.

If it can be divided, the building plot belongs to him - end of story. If it cannot be divided, there is a subdivision plan, which is part of the notarial contract. This is a standard procedure in which the individual ownership is regulated, which I have described several times so far.



This is the same legal constellation as with any condominium in a multifamily house. So, in your opinion, are all buyers of a condominium hopelessly naive adventurers?



With all due respect - you have absolutely no idea what you are writing about. This is done daily, also with complete houses and always when splitting is not desired or technically/legal not possible or associated with significant additional costs. This has really nothing to do with renovations or extensions.



This scenario simply does not exist. He already described that the houses are planned to be autonomous and that the parents' house can be demolished. Presumably, there is no building permit otherwise, which means nothing other than that each house can be demolished at will and the other will remain standing. I also don’t understand what is so hard to grasp about that – there are two houses standing side by side, the only thing connecting them is a line of roof tiles and glued-on styrofoam insulation. Any architect can manage that.



Who says the payout of the brother is not possible? I would immediately have an idea how to solve that. And who says that this family cannot come to an agreement and tensions are provoked? There are over 1000m² of building land available – they would be foolish not to use it.



How can facts/information from this thread be overlooked so frequently and so consistently again and again? The brother is supposed to receive 50K€, which clearly is also possible for the OP – is 50K€ really nothing?



The brother is obviously at a different stage of life – that can happen.



The new house stands on his land. Keyword subdivision plan! Part of the notarial certified purchase/transfer contract! Furthermore, in the event of inheritance, the land would go 50% to him if your assumption were correct (which it definitely is not), so you would also know exactly what happens to the land then. How can that be ignored again and again?



That would, in the worst case, be partial ownership. In the land register, the parents and the builder, depending on the constellation, possibly also his wife/partner, thus two to four names appear. In addition, shares of value that can be clearly assigned to each individual owner (!) are entered in the land register. This is not the best of all solutions but legally still clear.

Best regards,
Dirk Grafe
 

toxicmolotof

2016-08-12 13:43:32
  • #5
We have set up this configuration of a single-family house as a condominium on a property in Kaarst (so not even far from Krefeld) with the parents-in-law.

It works without any problems. The only thing is the matter with the parents-in-law... that has clear advantages and disadvantages, in every respect.
 

86bibo

2016-08-13 06:32:56
  • #6


Thank you for agreeing with me, even if you apparently don’t see it yourself.

New build:
- €350K house
- €100K for 500m² land
Makes €450K. Later he inherits €125K which he can use to pay off and thus ends up with the planned house on 500m² land for €325K

"Extension"
- €350K house
- his €125K inheritance is already included in this, since he will no longer receive it later
- in the event of death, to be sole owner he would have to pay €125K to the brother

Thus, he has paid €475K and has already utilized the parents' inheritance. Whether you add these €125K to this and compare it against the €450K of the new build or offset the €325K against the €475K is completely irrelevant. The fact is that the whole thing is €150K more expensive than a new build (if the land prices are correct) for 500-600m² additional garden.

Regarding the payout, he clearly said that he cannot pay his brother out completely now. In my opinion, there is a significant difference between €50,000 and €100,000.
 

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