Savings potential in lighting sampling

That won't work. Since you can no longer thread the cables from hole to hole. The drywall panels are screwed onto profiles. So you always have an interruption in one direction. The cable for the spots must already be laid during the installation of the substructure.

Too bad, but thanks for the info. We wanted to do it ourselves, actually. Do you have any idea why so much money is charged for it? I think it’s not such a big deal.

Communication, planning, procurement, execution, documentation, billing... - in a project-driven company, changes always mean more than just the pure execution. At the same time, do not lose sight of incidental wage and operating costs. The margin at €60 is not inflated, the price is acceptable.

I completely agree with ypg. Spots are totally outdated. Nowadays, there are much better lighting concepts. Above all, you can achieve a nicely bright room without drilling loads of holes in the ceiling.

I would work with modern lighting concepts. Certainly, for accent lighting, a spot here and there is helpful, but not as the main light in the living-dining-kitchen area. That rather results in unpleasant light cones on walls and furniture.

In hallways etc., that may still look okay.


For the hole with cable, planning work + one (or more) circuit(s), possibly a circuit breaker including wiring, junction box(es), terminals, and last but not least, labor are also involved.

I don’t want point lighting either. In my idea, these were dimmable elements with a wide beam angle. What do you mean by "modern lighting concepts"? Is there a good guide/thread for this here in the forum?

Regarding the planning work: That’s why I wanted to have the first element pre-installed so that I have the circuit and switching option. I can drill holes and lay 2 meters of cable myself, provided the ceiling substructure allows it. The ceiling consists of the 240mm ceiling joists and the substructure for the drywall. The substructure is probably perpendicular to the joists. The insulation is 50mm thick. In my understanding, I can get the cable through there, or not? Does anyone have exact information about the construction of a Bien-Zenker ceiling?

This is what the Bien-Zenker ceiling looks like:

I don't want spot lighting either. In my imagination, these were dimmable elements with a wide beam angle. [...]

Recessed lights with a wide beam angle can cause glare very easily. I believe I had 120mm ones in one place, which I had to replace with lights with frosted glass to reduce glare. Then the combination of recessed spot + wide beam angle worked. However, I can only imagine this in functional rooms like a dressing room, for example.

Otherwise, in many rooms we also simply installed dimmable ceiling light outlets, which we then equipped with adjustable surface-mounted lights (cheap option: single-beam Nymane lights from Ikea, expensive option: MaWa surface-mounted light Wittenberg 4.0). This way you are very flexible with the lighting and can, for example, illuminate the side walls, which produces pleasant indirect light.

By the way, mostly 3000K light bulbs, all over 90 CRI. All the 80 CRI from GU were removed again, that was wasted money.

We have installed 3000k hiCRI recessed luminaires with VEFL (very wide flood) reflectors in 130mm holes and 150mm depth at the entrance with the following characteristics: We are very satisfied with them. The same type of luminaire with a different 2700K is installed in the terrace roofing and as spotlights on a rail in the living room, here again 3000K but less wide-angled. Of course, this does not save ambient lighting. Since the luminaires without dimming can each produce 2800 lumens of luminous flux, it can be very bright when needed – for example, during cleaning. Have a look at ansorg...