Refund illegal bank fees

  • Erstellt am 2014-11-08 22:44:59

toxicmolotof

2015-01-04 10:18:03
  • #1
Could you please also address the rest of my thread?
 

Bauexperte

2015-01-04 15:37:04
  • #2
Hello Tox,


This simple statement hits the mark: "You" behave - morally speaking - correctly; unfortunately, that does not mean you can impose your character on all your colleagues. Would be nice though.

Hopefully you know that I appreciate you and your contributions, but in this thread I must unfortunately disagree with you; even though otherwise I avoid replying to threads with a financial background. "klblb" is unfortunately right - and he describes "only" a vanishingly small part with comparatively small damages to bank customers. I could still fill books today with the moral concepts of some executive boards ... But Ogger was faster.

My partner worked for many years - a total of 12 - for the 3 largest banks in the area of commercial car leasing. As a career changer - coming from commercial vehicle and passenger car trade - he saw himself somewhat closer to his life goal in his mid-20s, to have a secure job. The problem was that in the "game" with commercial fleets much larger sums were involved; different credit ratings and securities (which arouse desires) were required (had to be). Apart from, among other things, experiences like financing fleets for poison gas producing manufacturers (used in Iraq), financing non-existent fleets for ground manufacturers (balm), or refusal of financing for moral reasons (the client at that time earned his money with masturbation booths in sex shops), a board decision made the barrel overflow for my partner.

In NRW in the 90s there was a very successful businessman who earned his money with new fragrances. For this he bought the patents of a new fragrance, set up the necessary infrastructure (placed the fragrance on the market) and then sold the brand thus built up with good profit to solvent buyers. This went very well for many years, ongoing loans - also leasing rates - were always paid on time; with this business model he achieved great wealth and purchased various residential properties in desirable locations from his profit. So one should have assumed that the financing bank and the customer maintained a good business relationship since both benefited. Far from it...

Even very clever people have Achilles heels. One day the mentioned businessman called my partner and asked for a deferral of 3 consecutive leasing rates for a larger number of passenger cars; these should instead be appended to the end of the agreed term. At that time he had taken a partner into management and apparently placed too much trust in him; in short, he had defrauded him of a considerable amount of money, with the consequence that he temporarily had no sufficient cash reserves. As usual with banks, my partner had a budget "X" under his own responsibility and promised his customer to postpone the leasing rates. What he did not consider was that for the postponement of the leasing rates, among other things, processing fees were incurred; thus it was no longer his decision, but in the hands of the executive board.

To shorten the story: it no longer mattered that the bank could have easily helped a - until then - reliable and long-term business partner (there were enough securities, but bound). What mattered solely was that a board colleague coveted a property of the bank customer and could serve himself with the refusal of support... and he did.

That was also the time when my partner ended his banking career; much to my delight, because he would have been broken mentally if he had stayed in this industry. We know today that banks - also due to the Lehman collapse - are trying to improve their image externally. Initial controls have been established and are also effective... but still "only" noticeably below the executive board levels; not much has really changed above that.

Rhenish greetings
 

toxicmolotof

2015-01-04 16:01:35
  • #3


But this now has nothing to do with the banking topic, right, or where do I not get the connection? That this is antisocial behavior is beyond question, but it exists everywhere in varying degrees. Banks, politics, trade... if I don't like the kebab shop next to my kebab shop, then I try to get that kebab shop removed. I don't have to be a bank to play with unfair means. That is the behavior of individuals.

And yes, my behavior may not be the behavior of everyone, and every opinion is always somewhat different from person to person. But here, regardless of the discussion about bank fees, one is accused again that all banks (and all bankers) are bad. And that simply isn't true. It is a minority that projects all bad things onto the majority. And if someone wants to buy a Rheinmetall share from me, they will get it from me if necessary. And yes, if someone wants to buy a hedge fund... please. As part of comprehensive advice, funds that subsidize landmines will also be included.... BUT! where I can, I point out such things. And if someone tells me today... I would like to have 3% interest, then I can hardly achieve that with German government bonds. Are we bad people now because American Tobacco is in the portfolio? Man, that's a matter of opinion.

What goes on in bank and other company boards I cannot and do not want to judge. But that has to do with the person, not with their profession. Because bankers have long since ceased to be the people on the board. That has a lot to do with lobby and politics.

No one would come up with the idea that all general contractors are profiteers who drive families into financial ruin just because it’s about profit. And yes, there are certainly bad apples, but that doesn't make the industry corrupt overall, does it?

To get back to the fee issue: a bank's calculation basis was withdrawn that not only reduced profit but in some cases completely eliminated the profit margin in certain transactions. And someone has to pay for it. Since banks cannot print money either, in the end it will be some customer in some form.

I want to see where something like this happens in another industry. Alternative example: The structural engineering by the general contractor may no longer be paid for by the customer because it is mandatory and thus automatically included. Or the earthworks... that would certainly be even more interesting. If the earthworks are refused, the general contractor cannot build.
 

Bauexperte

2015-01-04 16:30:31
  • #4
Hello Tox,


But as a bank, it is much easier - it sits at the source, because without banks/savings banks/cooperative banks, nothing works in financial transactions ;)


Welcome to my world - I also am always initially under observation, because I belong to the evil salespeople. Germans tend to generalize and feel confirmed in groups - see for example Pegida or AfD. I could koxxen ... when I see which otherwise smart minds defend/belong to this "movement"/"party."

The fact is, however, that in the past banks have not handled their customers’ money as carefully as it was necessary and desirable. It will still take a while until lost trust is regained.


I see it differently - it is primarily the temptations that come with salary levels beyond a certain point; but I am also a few days older than you :)


Then, dear Tox, you have not read properly here or what do you think why I repeat your sentence like a broken record?

Wishing you and your loved ones a nice Sunday!
 

Doc.Schnaggls

2015-01-05 12:28:13
  • #5
Hello,

I only read the posts here today, but that doesn't change the fact that my neck hairs are standing on end once again.

Once again, some people are lumping all bank employees together and portraying them as greedy, unscrupulous cutthroats.

It is incredibly immoral that banks dare to actually want to make a profit.

The demand that banks should make their entire calculation transparent is also a real kicker.

: Do you also ask the baker for the exact calculation of your rolls?
Do you work "for bonuses," i.e., completely for free, because you are such a nice person?

I also can no longer hear accusations like constant shifting in securities portfolios and selling highly speculative investments to the "grandma next door."

Get informed about what preventing churning or compliance in general means for banks before such false, generalized statements are made here.

People want to use the services of banks but pay nothing for them...

No words...

Incomprehending regards,

Dirk
 

K1300S

2015-01-05 15:07:21
  • #6
I can quite understand your frustration as a banker, but the fact is that in the last few years "the banks" (some, which, however, become visible as examples for the majority) have not exactly made many new friends. Whether the other extreme (complete disclosure and transparency of all trade secrets) is purposeful, I would also like to question.

VG

K1300S
 

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