Planning of the network cabinet and its contents

Thank you. 10W would be nice, I guess I'll have to take a look... The HP needs 25W when it has nothing to do and the hard drives are sleeping.

Hey Alex,
why are you so negative about QNAP, Syno, and the like? Have you had bad experiences with them? Then I could understand.

For example, I simply don’t feel like putting together the crap, setting up the software, configuring it, and keeping it up to date. The extra free time is worth the extra cost to me. And actually, I have never noticed a bottleneck with the CPU of my DS216j. For me, it would be a waste of resources to run a significantly more powerful CPU since I simply lack the applications.

It is undisputed for me that with a DIY build you can get cheaper and also set up a perfectly tailored box. But I like the consumer product for my purposes. The times when I built my own PC are over for me, but I have no problem if not everyone handles it that way.

Power consumption in normal operation is also around 30W. When the hard drive is idle and powers down, the CPU throttles accordingly, saving about 10-15W. Runs 24/7. No, QNAP and the like are not much better.

Yes, they are. What you consume in idle state is what mine draws under load; when everything is idle, the power consumption is somewhere around 7W – so about half.

Weak CPUs of course need a bit less power, but that’s not going to make a difference and never, ever compensates the higher purchase price.

That may well be, and that wouldn’t be my argument either.

But okay, that’s the difference between doing it yourself and buying ready-made. But when you see that besides that there’s also a collection of NUCs, Pis, and whatnot, I find that more than absurd. The thread title is "Planning the Network Cabinet" and not "Putting gathered boxes in a cabinet." That's without concept.

Then mount the Pis like blades in a 19" rackmount and it’s no longer without concept because everything is nicely installed and tidy in the cabinet.

I can’t speak for others here; for me, the Pis are at most tinkering projects, i.e. hobby. The NUC is the central VISU and logic server and deliberately a dedicated device. Edomi needs a 64-bit architecture and CentOS. I explicitly do NOT want to run that productively in a VM. CPU power-wise a Pi would be enough, it just doesn’t work because of the 64-bit...

Whether it’s absurd or not may also be a matter of taste and in a way personal preference or hobby. For me, pragmatic solutions count in a single-family house – if there were three Pis at the bottom of the rack or two NUCs doing their job, that would be a pragmatic solution that solves my problem. Golden faucets or an (for me) exaggerated aesthetic I need less in the basement/technical room or that would be last on my list. But not everyone has to see it that way and that’s okay too. I do think a super-clean network cabinet looks great, no question, but it’s not my primary goal.

Hey Alex, why are you so against QNAP, Syno, and co? Have you had bad experiences with them? I could understand that then

As written, they are too expensive. Much too expensive. The added value is certainly in the software. As mentioned above, their hardware isn’t even necessary for that. It also works with your own hardware. If you want, you can choose from a wide range of open source alternatives that offer similar functions to the QNAP and Synology software. Without any fiddling.

For example, I simply don’t feel like putting that crap together, setting up the software, configuring it, and keeping it up to date. The extra free time is worth the extra cost to me.

But setting up a bunch of Pis and keeping them alive is fun for you instead?

Yes, they are. What you consume in idle state, my DS does under load, when everything is asleep, power consumption is somewhere around 7W – so half.

Undoubtedly, the idle consumption of smaller CPUs and systems optimized for that is better than a custom build. Although, mid-range NAS systems around 500€ often have Celeron J... SoCs inside, which you can also buy and build yourself. The difference between your system and mine is that I have four hard drives, you only two. One drive consumes about 4W; QNAP won’t change that. What matters is that the disks can power down. As soon as a camera records, this no longer happens or I can use one of the existing or an additional drive just for that purpose. You will have to buy a new NAS because your case is full, or accept that both disks (I assume a RAID1 configuration with two disks) no longer go into sleep mode.

Then mount the Pis like blades in a 19" rackmount and it’s no longer senseless because everything is neatly built into the cabinet

Tidying up is one thing. The solution should be flexible and when I hear that tinkering and experimenting is often done, a self-built box with virtualization is the smartest because it is much more flexible than stacking individual boxes. It’s cheaper as well.

I can’t speak for others here, but for me the Pis are at best tinkering projects, a hobby. The NUC is the central VISU and logic server and consciously a dedicated device. Edomi requires a 64bit architecture and CentOS. I consciously do NOT want to run that productively in a VM.

What speaks against running it in a VM? The whole world knows CentOS and uses it, from tinkering stuff to data centers. 32bit has felt dead for about 10 years. What is your issue?

Another perspective: Why a (large) 19" cabinet at all, if "desktop devices" are to be stacked on shelf trays inside? The 19" cabinet is thus as useful as a 20€ Billy shelf that serves the same purpose. On 19" you can still put patch panels and switches; the rest is often better off in a shelf because it saves space (and is also cheaper).

Keystone? For that money, you might as well have an electrician do the work.

Keystone, in my opinion, only scores where the jack formats are inhomogeneous or even the smallest patch panel would be significantly under-equipped.

The title of the thread is "Planning the network cabinet" and not "putting collected boxes into a cabinet." That's without concept.

Another perspective: Why even have a (large) 19" cabinet if "desktop devices" are just going to be stacked on shelf panels inside? The 19" cabinet is then as useful as a €20 Billy shelf that would fulfill the same purpose. You can place patch panels and switches on 19", the rest is almost better off in a shelf because it saves space (and is also cheaper)

I see it the same way. Without structure, it’s just a junk cabinet with a glass door; and if no one cares about grounding in there, the cabinet could just be made of wood. I often see that the cable length is not considered with the cabinet depth and because it was chosen too tight, the doors remain open – then a fan practically just blows dust around. Then it really becomes a shelf. If the only thing in 19" format is the patch panel itself, then you can indeed just mount it on the wall with mounting brackets.

As written, they are too expensive. Way too expensive.

Whether something is too expensive or not depends on the personal value one assigns to it, doesn’t it? It’s not too expensive for me because the value for money is right for me.

The added value surely lies in the software. As written above, you don’t even need their hardware for that. It also works with your own hardware.
If you like, you can choose from a wide range of open source alternatives that offer similar functions to QNAP and Synology software. Without any fiddling.

Admittedly, I don’t know “your” software, but I’m curious and will take a look at it soon. Maybe my opinion will change then. For now, I simply really like the Syno solution. But we’ll see, nothing lasts forever..

But setting up and maintaining a bunch of Pis is fun for you instead?

Well, what’s there to maintain? Kodi, RPICam ... dedicated tasks, dedicated solutions with relatively low maintenance effort. And yes, I usually enjoy my hobbies, this one included...

The difference between your system and mine is, I have four hard drives, you only have two. One drive needs about 4W, QNAP doesn’t change that.

I have a Syno, and so far I have never felt the need to have more than 2 drives. I just don’t need it, but that’s not a generalization.

At the latest when a camera records, that no longer applies or I can only use one of the existing or an additional drive for this purpose, you will buy a new NAS...

My cameras are connected to a RPi with MotionEyeOS. There is one drive connected and that’s fine. No need for a new NAS.

The solution should be flexible and when I hear that people like to tinker and experiment, a self-built box with virtualization is the smartest because it is much more flexible than stacking individual little boxes. It’s cheaper too.

Matter of taste and opinion.

What speaks against running it in a VM?

Nothing. What makes a VM-based solution the only one with a legitimate reason to exist? Right, nothing either.
I’m a fan of dedicated hardware for dedicated tasks. I don’t want to run my home automation on the same hardware as some other images. You don’t have to see it that way

Another perspective: Why even have a (big) 19" cabinet if “desktop devices” are to be stacked on shelves inside it?

No one was even talking about that! It was about a RPi and a NAS already available. I feel more comfortable with pragmatic solutions than dogmatic ones. That’s why I have no problem putting a PI in my 19" rack and also my already existing NAS right next to it.

Throwing everything out for dogmatic reasons and buying (or building) it as a 19" variant just to end up solving - exactly - the same problems is not my way. But everyone is free to tinker as they like – I can really handle that

If you build everything from scratch, want to ditch the existing stuff (or don’t have it), well then why not? No problem with that. But currently I would probably still use the rackstation (a Syno in 19" format for reasonable money and sufficient power FOR ME) – for the reasons I mentioned, because FOR ME they are not too expensive but offer ME the corresponding value. That’s it.

I often see that ...

Are you actually professionally active in construction, or are you building something yourself right now? I'm genuinely asking out of interest, because you seem to have something to contribute on every topic, whether IT, wall constructions, floor plans, design, lighting, network technology, windows, flooring... and I always wonder where you "see" all that if you weren't active in construction.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that I wish you would hold back or anything. Definitely not meant that way!