Thanks for all the feedback! Discussing this within the family took a bit longer, especially the interesting ground floor variant.
First, some context:
- If it turns out that our planning is crap, we would start again with a blank sheet; it’s not like that yet (no use otherwise). If it (with some adjustments now) fits us, that would of course be good.
- Parking spaces: formally we need some, and if necessary, the east garden (toward the street) can be sacrificed for that. Practically, we have one car, and on the street it feels like everyone parks on the street anyway, and I walk to the train on my way to work. Whether my children will need a driver’s license or if autonomous driving will make that unnecessary remains to be seen.
- There are 4 relevant grandparents. My parents live on the neighboring plot. My wife’s parents live far away but would very much like to spend a total of at least 1.5–2 months per year there (time with grandkids and so on). And then there are scenarios of needing care...
- We plan to obtain offers from different house construction companies with the design (tender).
- On the east side is the street, the roof is oriented east-west for solar.
I’ll try to go through everything:
Others are much better at the floor plan game. Basically, I like the flexible idea. Of course, there is the risk that not all details are 100% achieved and there are compromises.
But while skimming I noticed the following:
- leave out the ring beams on the ground floor and set the windows including shutter boxes on the existing concrete ceiling
- you can do the same in the attic if you also execute the upper ceiling as a concrete ceiling
- with a bit more steel it should be possible to make the walls between kitchen and living room non-load-bearing. It probably won’t cost more than 5k
- drop the skylight and plan photovoltaics fully. Light through the two gable windows is enough
- I would design the front part of the attic immediately as a playroom and the rear part as storage space
- in the guest WC I would take a shower instead of a bathtub
Ring beams depend on the construction method as far as I understand; hollow bricks with a pitched roof apparently often make them necessary. If the house builder says they can save them, that’s great of course. Probably also an idea to simply price out the feature "non-load-bearing between living room and kitchen"?
One gable window is behind a door (divider), for that large room that’s already little. Also, otherwise you can’t get up on the roof. At 23 degrees it’s also quite harmless to go up there, at least for people who know what they’re doing? Maintenance hatch plus light seems useful? But yes, a bit of solar is missing later on the west side.
The attic has quite some possibilities, that’s a good one.
So we plan a shower bathtub (with door/deep entry) to hopefully have the best of both worlds. I see with my parents they really like to bathe warmly.
Whoever the planner is, they are not worth their money. Best to quickly toss this rubbish.
Can you be a bit more specific? The rubbish probably comes from our messed-up wishes.
I don’t see the first part of the plan. Where is the house supposed to be on the plot?
On the southeast corner. We are allowed to build 3m from neighbors and 6m from the street. The drawing of the house on the plot will be created in the next few days (ping-pong with the planner is not yet finished).
You want to build a house for 4 children, that might later be divided into 2 apartments, and are planning 2 parking spaces, one of which is also trapped? Small joke, right?
See above. If necessary, the front yard will later become parking, but our current demand is one, actually zero since it’s also perfectly fine for us to park on the street.
The photovoltaics are in my opinion not well planned. Assuming the dormers have N/S orientation, then fully cover the roof to the south. In my view, 33 modules fit there. North only if you have money to spare. From October to March there is zero yield there. But then the heat pump needs it. Roof pitch also somewhat steeper to 30 degrees in my opinion.
Roofs are east and west with a 23-degree pitch. Solar cells are initially just prepared. By the time the house is ready, they will probably be cheaper/better again and house building companies seem to charge big markups.
I would like to have 30 degrees roof pitch in principle. However, my parents strongly prefer the house to be as small as possible (it’s already actually too tall for them), and since we have to orient ourselves to the surrounding development, it’s not quite clear what will ultimately pass. There are advantages if one can argue that it is not planned unnecessarily high. For solar with east-west...
The OP planned himself. There have been much worse things here before.
I rather see static problems with the large living/dining area. Spans over 5 m with load-bearing wall on top will be expensive.
You missed the goal of 200 m2 living space.
How much does expensive mean?
According to the planner and by my count (added areas) it is just under 200 sqm. Utility room, floor and stairs do not count.
@ : We wanted the utility room where the laundry happens, and with the floor plan approach from the stairs, you have to look at how to handle such an L-shape. I think it fits us. And if the kids later prefer the shower bath, that’s fine with me.
The case of your parents is interesting. Here there are different settings. Someone moves in alone or as a couple and is fit. Someone moves in alone and is very needy. Two move in and are very needy, etc.
But in an emergency, rooms are swapped here. A larger bed fits in the study (3*4.2), and at the latest in the current living room there is enough space in such a worst-case scenario. Then our living room just becomes smaller in that case, that works. There is flexibility here.
"I don’t see scenes of family life here." -> Interesting. What scenes? I think it’s a new way of thinking for me. Or do you mean something like "lounging on the couch watching a movie" (living room), "family meals" (kitchen/outside), "board game night" (kitchen/outside), "small child doing homework" (kitchen table, or their room depending)?
Which scenes are missing here?
There is no nice big and practical terrace door: There are quite a few windows. Floor-to-ceiling windows reduce options a bit (you can’t put anything in front of them), and when sitting at a table, some people have their backs to it and others have to look past the people/table. That dampens the effect too. There are some tall trees visible from the windows, plus other stuff. I know floor-to-ceiling windows, but somehow I don’t need them? So if they are useful and fit, okay, but somehow I don’t find them necessarily better. Do I have a misconception here?
Space for shaping community life and communication should be available: Depends a lot on the children’s ages. For small children, a bit south of the kitchen. But if necessary, as long as not everything is taken, there is a separate room for toys. Right now we have "play stations" in some places where there shouldn’t be any, even though one as an adult has to watch where they step there. I think this won’t be too little.
"Yes! Apart from the requirement that is not stated." Which ones should we add?
"Somewhat alarming!" Probably, we are currently quite happy in principle. At a level where I previously thought that it wouldn’t all fit under one roof.
Coat closet: Actually, we don’t want a closet but clothes hooks. There is a space between the door and bathroom in the north also. Underneath then the shoes. Might look not perfectly tidy to some, but for us it is usual and quick in daily life.
Shoe place by the kitchen is planned north of the west exit as a cabinet. It’s not really a kitchen cabinet but the upper surface is a shelf, below that shoes. Possibly also a place under the bench for shoes. More or less like that.
2.7m in the guest room: As long as it’s a guest room, that fits. You can (but costs quite a bit of closet space) turn the bed and place it by the window. If only one person stays there permanently that works too. If you have two bedridden grandparents in the house, you probably have to swap with the living room or so.
The quick and dirty floor plan is VERY interesting. We discussed it longer today. Both the variant and the mirrored one, with the kitchen in the southeast and living room in the southwest respectively.
As far as I see, it has some advantages (more space in the respective rooms, large window fronts which do not feel quite so important to us). But also some disadvantages: The utility room is in the west (longer lines, the other room is then not there), the bathroom has only a north window, and there is one less room. The restrained statement of the grandparents is that they like the variant with more rooms better.
In the later scenario when the house is divided, you then have the choice between one or two bedrooms (or similar). The latter gives the possibility of an office, a room when children visit, care personnel, etc.
Even now you can set up a play area in the extra room when you don’t otherwise need it. Grandparents (at least ours) otherwise bother about the mess (though they sometimes accept it), so there is a door in between. Quite a bit of flexibility.
Currently, we still tend toward the extra room because of flexibility. Not quite sure what is better in the next few years, but if we only live in the lower half, we are pretty sure it’s better for us that way. Do we have misconceptions here?
Drainage from the upper floor through the kitchen has to be liked. The execution must be proper.
If you are thinking about renting, you have to think about building services separately. Where does the electrical sub-distribution in the upper floor go, where does the network distribution in the upper floor go...? How do supply and disposal lines look for the future kitchen upstairs?
Is your public transport so good that you can neglect the parking issue like that?
Hope that it will fit, after all we can hide it behind the cabinet. The legal situation is troublesome somehow. Within the family it’s easy anyway as long as one lives there oneself, probably practical as well, and there are some exemption rules. But yes, it will be prepared so that we can do it later.
My way to the train is not so short, but okay, and I take the train to work.
: yes. With the current plan, for example, a bicycle carport or similar goes next to the utility room. Basically, it also fits in the southeast corner. There are options here; we planned to decide exactly how when the first child takes the bike to school or so. Until then, presumably, new ideas will exist.
Legally, it would probably be "owner with subtenant (i.e., partial rental of self-used living space)." Has some minor advantages like § 573a of the Building Code, making it easier to terminate them if something doesn’t fit. Law here is somehow exhausting.
"I think the OP will not respond anymore. He is so shocked that his planning does not meet common standard needs because he simply forgot them that he has already restricted his profile." Taking a day to respond is probably quite slow in this forum. Sorry.
Standard needs are interesting. As far as I see, the relevant ones are my family’s needs (hard enough to extract, orienting on standard needs certainly helps here) and the resale value later (more flexibility and a house already stands a very long time). The latter benefits, I think, quite well from separability and the many rooms. The location is also quite solid (Berlin’s commuter belt, still with S-Bahn connection). And in an emergency, it will be converted into a student dormitory with 8 rooms. Misconception?
It’s crazy how some get worked up here and go looking when who was last online.
The thing is already done, no one seriously believes that a planning apparently ongoing for a long time will suddenly fall apart in the final phase.
He will build it like that and it will work more or less. End of story.
We would if it got clearly better. The variant with one room less as in the suggestion is still under discussion, but as of now we tend to prefer more rooms.
I look forward to your feedback. Tear my argumentation apart as you like. I will respond but it may take a day or two.