Is Smarthome KNX automation possible based on the floor plan?

Eventually it will be creepy

I don’t understand the thread – with that attitude you would never install an automation and Grym-typical explains everything to himself so logically that any counterargument would just fizzle out again.

Just do everything exactly as you wished and then you’ll be satisfied.

Instead of a crossover switching, I would recommend a impulse switching – it’s nicer anyway .

KNX or other automation always depends heavily on usage habits. I have now compiled our "planned" usage habits and wonder how KNX/automation can help me?

I’m like Sebastian, I don’t understand what you want.

If you have dealt with KNX then you know the possibilities. If you don’t need them now, then just do it classically. The advantage of KNX is group switching solutions and automatism. If you don’t want/need that, then just build classically.

I don’t see the added value so far. A heater makes it warm in winter. Cooling makes it cool in summer. Ventilation provides fresh air and prevents mold. It takes me 30-60 minutes of ventilation work every day.

I personally am an advocate of KNX but if someone doesn’t need it, why should you then convince them. And that is the impression this thread gives me.

I don’t want to categorically exclude anything in house construction, therefore I want to know what KNX/automation can do for me.

The advantages for the blinds would be that you a) drive them up and down automatically, b) form any groups. For example, all blinds in the west or south.

And now I wonder in what other tricky way automation could map our usage habits? Group south wouldn’t make sense because the south living room is not under the sun sail but the other two are.

Another advantage of KNX is that you minimize switch orgies. If you, like in my case, have 6 blinds in the living room then the scenes and group functions of KNX come in very handy. One button and a certain scenario starts. For example watching TV, blinds closed, lights dimmed (or the hallway light goes on ).

Sounds maybe strange, but I don’t want to lose control. Every blind should be individually switchable according to our needs. So you’d build all switches/dimmers anyway. In our case 3 blind switches and 2 dimmers next to the living room door and 3 blind switches and 2 dimmers next to the kitchen door.

Sure you can do it classically then you just go to every window and press the switch and to the hallway and turn the light on.

I would of course put the blind switches next to the door. Blinds are light in my opinion, so they belong to the light switches.

The result is the same. Or you just press 5 switches. I have 6 blinds and 4 ceiling lights in the living room. That would be 10 classical switches or a KNX MDT Smart 2 switch for €113 which fits in a flush-mounted box. With that I can switch everything individually or scenarios. As I like it at the moment. And I don’t have two times 5 rows of switches on the wall.

Ah ok, I’ll take a look at that one.

There are a lot more things you can do with it. Many only come to you when you live in the house. And then you have, since the wiring is built differently than in the classical case, more possibilities.

Well, but if I now realize I want to switch light 3 when window 5 opens, then I need a window contact on window 5. If that was not planned from the start, then it is missing.

In a classical installation for example, the cable goes from the distributor to the switch and from the switch to the ceiling. With KNX the cable goes directly from the distributor to the ceiling. On the one hand that simplifies the installation, on the other hand you can later more easily change the purpose of use. The same basically applies to sockets and other consumers. And of course it also applies to the blinds.

So with KNX basically everything is pulled from the power distributor to the endpoint? Ok. And then it is connected there in the distributor and still has to be programmed or does it just work like that?

For me there is a clear reason for KNX/central control, which (for me) cannot be beaten by anything:

Central OFF at the front door

That would be an option yes. But you would have to program it regularly anew because sometimes you charge your phone here and sometimes there. I wouldn’t connect charging a phone with central off now. Or is it really only about the stove?

I have meanwhile heard too many dramatic and sad stories of burned down houses whose owners could do absolutely nothing about it, that I want to avoid that as far as possible.

I don’t know a single case and in the numerous new development areas we looked at I never saw a burned down house. Do you work for the fire department?

The attitude “if it burns, I’m insured” can only come from someone who never had to realize the actual consequences of a fire.

Because it is pretty unrealistic. I didn’t want a hysteria discussion about it.

Just brainstorming - whether that works with KNX or not:
Door opens through facial recognition

Sure you can do that, but now about comfort. The desired function of a heater is heat when it is needed. The desired function of the front door is to open from inside and from outside for authorized persons, whether with key or facial recognition!?

House realizes whether people are still in the house and otherwise switches defined sockets off

For what?

House shows central power consumption (identification of forgotten devices / stand-by consumers)

For what? Why? I just get a year-end bill and it is not particularly high to make big savings worthwhile.

Intelligent presence simulation (with a certain random factor)

I thought that topic was already settled? No criminal spies on a house for days where maybe 120 EUR cash and possibly some jewelry are lying around. In doubt they ring shortly and if someone opens, they pretend to be Jehovah’s Witnesses. If no one opens, then the house is empty.

Lumen level is measured - light controls automatically (on/off/brighter)

If at the same time my lumen need is measured, ok. Constant light control, I already said, is not desired. Depending on mood, tiredness and activity the light should vary.

Telephone calls run via voice control and speakers and microphones built into rooms (house recognizes where the person is)

The function was previously to make phone calls and it is still making phone calls. Similar to door opening by facial recognition I haven’t gained anything from that. Also, I might not want everyone to eavesdrop on the call. Even if we are just talking about the child's birthday present.

It's simply not for you - I would tick off the topic and move on to the next one

Yes, I would do that too...

For every argument in favor, there is always only: I don't need it and my habits cannot be mapped.

Button cell batteries are also desired...

So home automation is simply nonsense because you are opposed to it from the start.

Nothing will come of it later either. I mean, if you did install one... you would only get annoyed and it definitely wouldn't work as desired.

So with KNX, everything is simply pulled from the circuit breaker to the end device? Ok. And then it is connected together there in the distributor but still needs to be programmed or does it just work like that?

I think you have dealt a lot with KNX? Then such questions wouldn't even come up... that is really basic knowledge. (If you have dealt with KNX)

For every argument in favor, there is always only: I don't need it and my habits can't be represented.

Maybe it can be represented 'somehow' after all? I haven't dealt with every single sensor and every single actuator and whatever yet. I'm first trying to put a logic into words that would make sense. It already fails there.

Switch batteries are also desired...

Well, for my part also a tablet hanging on the wall or such a multi-function glass switch as Tom described. The main thing is that everything can still be controlled.

So home automation is simply nonsense because you are opposed to it from the start.

I'm looking for reasons to be in favor.

But I don't want it to be a gimmick. Oh look, I can lower the blinds by voice control instead of pressing a button here. Oh look, I set the dining scene (tablet on, scene selection, dining scene, tablet off = 4 actions) instead of turning on the light here and dimming there (dining light up; kitchen light down = 2 actions). But maybe apart from gimmicks there is a real benefit?

So maybe 2-3 central functions at the entrance I could imagine most easily. You could display the status of all blinds, lower them all at the push of a button and could display the open state of all windows. One could turn off the stove and other critical things centrally (and status display whether stove is on/off). But that alone doesn't yet justify a complete KNX installation, does it? For these 2-3 central functions, which in my opinion really represent a comfort gain, install KNX. And with the display of the window status for each window and with the stove + critical consumers on/off I have really gained two new functions (I can switch blinds and lights with KNX as with conventional methods...).

Well, maybe it can be 'somehow' represented after all? I haven't dealt with every single sensor and every single actuator and whatever else yet. I'm first trying to put into words a logic that would make sense. It already fails at that.

Yes, most of it can be represented...with 350 manufacturers and millions of devices with the most diverse functions, there will definitely be something for you too.

Well, for all I care, a tablet hanging on the wall or one of those multi-function glass buttons like Tom described.

I already advised you in the other thread to let go of tablets... this is pretty much the worst thing you can imagine at the beginning of automation and control. Because it does not make things easier... it just looks good... in the process, (later on) when you want more, you can do more, meaning you can hang a touch/tablet/PC or whatever on the wall and monitor/control the house with it.

The main thing is, however, that everything can still be controlled.

If you want to, everything can be controlled manually. The only limits are in your mind and your wallet.

Like my example with the kitchen... I can manually operate/trigger 17 functions from one place... but in fact, buttons are only sporadically pressed manually, because the rest runs automatically.

Sure, I probably would have thought conventionally, just fewer switching functions in the kitchen...

But maybe there's a real benefit beyond just playing around?

I've never seen it as playing around, because it isn’t. In my eyes, it’s simply more comfortable to press one button instead of four... or none at all when I just want to go from the sofa to the bathroom. However, I also don’t want to go there in the dark... and if I (you) don’t want the light on, then the PM is simply locked.

Now about central functions and group switching:

...right here lies the biggest cost factor and effort of conventional electrical wiring.

Because you have to resort to additional modules, which can make the installation very expensive and often even cost-neutral or more expensive than some bus system.

How do you want to solve the issue with your 19 roller shutters, for example?

- Do you walk around every evening and every morning opening and closing everything?
- Do you give each roller shutter a timer? (costs)
- Do you make group switches? (further costs per floor, e.g.)
- Or do you make one central switch for everything?

All 4 possibilities are very rigid in themselves and not particularly comfortable. Everything else with a conventional approach becomes immensely expensive and complicated. A central switch means many more cables and numerous separating relays (if we stick to conventional). Of course, everything also works via radio and then radio central units at strategic spots, but do you really want that in a new building?

With bus systems (no matter which), you can relatively easily place buttons or other control elements at any desired points in the house and group and control your roller shutters from there as you wish.

For example:

- Central switch at front door/bedroom/living room, etc.
- Group switches at front door/bedroom/living room, etc.

And the best is:

The buttons can be reprogrammed. So if today you want something one way but in six months differently, you can grab your laptop with a bus system and have different control options on the switch in 10 minutes...

And you can then also LATER see and control everything on your tablet/phone/workplace.

With conventional electrical wiring, everything stays as it is and you really have to think through everything in advance how you want it in 10 years. Unless, of course, you tear open walls again and lay the cables anew.