House purchase and house construction - What can we afford

Individuality also means that the machines have to be reset/programmed every time and that attention must be paid to the combination of the individual parts. In addition, the planning (e.g. pipes) must be adapted to the individual house. Lots of sources of error. I know a prefab house where walls were erected that were not in the plan, doors were the wrong width, and so on. A prefab house is not comparable to a standard product that runs off the assembly line by the thousands every day, even if the advertising departments like to evoke this association. And local carpentry because they are more likely to take on tenders than the nationwide prefab construction company.

How to find the right architect can certainly be explained by .

How to find the right architect can certainly be explained by @11ant.

Thanks for the mention - but now I have to read the thread too, even though it is a financing thread, which I usually avoid.

Then I would start searching right away,
@11 has concrete search tips outside of Immoscout

Presumably meant: Tips on how to get plots of land, I have given repeatedly spread over many dozens of threads here - use the forum search:

One more completely different question, we are also still unsure whether we want to build ourselves (including prefabricated house) or if we want a pre-owned property.
My personal preference would be plot + prefabricated house, as I have relatively little desire for a renovation marathon. We are largely location-flexible, just want to stay in the extended commuter belt of the big city (only the direction is fixed).
For existing properties one has quite a good source with Immoscout etc., but how does it look with plots? It feels rather tight regarding good data sources / are there any insider tips?

There is nothing secret about the tips. Clearly focus on desired location(s), buy beside the market, avoid online portals (shortest summary).

The only question now is, how do you proceed with this information? How do you compare prefabricated house providers, which ones are reputable, how can we well estimate (learn?) the prices - the range of prices is quite significant (about factor 2)

The information you have so far is already enough for me, in your place, to positively conclude the question of whether you can even afford building. Comparing building prices is still too early at this point, since the plot is still missing. The inaccuracy of estimates decreases as the basics become clearer. In my “A homebuilding roadmap, also for you: the HOAI phase model!” I explain recommended procedures in detail, and the resting dough (Teigruhe) with milestone decisions is also described there and available as a service.

With the comparison of building descriptions, you as laypeople will be just as unhappy as visiting a model home park.

But how do I get myself on a basis to compare the different offers?

Only maniacs or those who want to become one make a passive comparison of building descriptions. By means of a professionally done tender one compares actively. That is offered by architects (but also other independent building consultants).

How do I identify a good prefabricated house provider? (Sure, I can read experience reports here in the forum). We get tons of information, but evaluating that information is of course our job now, but we are currently struggling with it a bit - so that is the main topic in the current working phase.

Have the most suitable provider searched professionally - the effort is highly ineffective as a hobby, but there are several people who do it as their daily bread. Currently, as said, that is not at all your main topic yet. Now comes the plot.

I would rather recommend you first go to an architect and have a reasonable floor plan created. The architect then makes a tender based on that, and companies make offers according to your requirements.

Correct, but as said that comes much later.

It is naturally a bit difficult if you are set on a large prefabricated house builder, as they do not necessarily participate. Carpentry shops and smaller prefabricated house providers more so. And in solid construction this is common anyway. Maybe you want to briefly explain again why it absolutely has to be a prefabricated house?

Better not be set on just one manufacturer or even just one building method.

I find it okay if you rely on well-known brand providers with very high uncertainty. Especially with Rentsch I can well imagine that they could meet your requirements.

Rensch-Haus is a good provider. To frame what is affordable - which however seems already clarified here from my perspective - more like “if You can make it there ...” pharmacies such as Baufritz, Weberhaus and the like are recommended.

But basically that describes our problem pretty well - you get 2 (I don’t want to call them offers) price indications, which are completely different and vastly different in scope. Many parts are then packed in some kind of “packages” that make it incredibly difficult to somehow compare the pricing.

Apples and pears. That is why you already set your own clear standard at the milestone decision, and the tender again states that precisely, including the equipment.

Taking an architect and tackling the whole project with them (whether prefab or custom planned) would be one solution, but still we want to build knowledge ourselves first. We are definitely far from starting - the only thing we have so far is a financing frame, plus now actively building “more” reserves to increase equity (i.e. our goal is to increase available equity by another 10% this year).

That is already an excellent basis, but before the architect comes the plot. You will have found that much faster than reaching satisfaction with your own expertise.

That I think describes our topics quite well. The apartment back then was relatively easy to plan. The floor plan was basically given, you could choose floor/light switches/whatever - a house multiplies the number of decisions as well as their complexity manifold (we definitely underestimated that so far and now want to build up knowledge first on our side).

Guided in a structured way, all these pitfalls lose their terror.

You fix the asymmetry most easily with an expert appointed by you and obligated only to you. This expert defines what is to be built on your behalf and companies bid on this tender.

Exactly: Tender instead of Excel sheet is the keyword, and all consultants (including the architect) should be neutral and commissioned by you directly.

The houses are too individual to really make profits from serial production, and in prefabricated houses subcontracting is as common as in solid construction.

That’s efficiency: such a short paragraph with two nuggets that must be highlighted:
1. Custom designs, like all medals, have two sides, the other being a lack of serial maturity (even if here the unit cost marketing lie was presumably meant);
2. Most general contractors – “massive” as well as “prefab” alike – are basically buses full of subcontractors with a changing lineup from project to project (also substitutions to keep price commitments).

Having your own architect does not exclude a prefabricated house and a tender. You will probably need a few adjustments and not every provider builds custom designs. But basically it is possible. Or you order only the shell from a local carpentry and manage the rest yourself.

Another paragraph like a Swiss army knife. 1. Architect and catalog house can be a very good combination, and 2. shell house and architect contract also.

In the end, it almost always comes down to finding someone you can assess well enough to entrust a pile of money to (who at the same time has a more or less clear conflict of interest, as he earns “his” money with your money).

That is why you don’t take anyone who sells anything except their own service as either a specialist coordinator or planner (and you reward the architect phase-wise better for budget adherence than for the opposite, costs).

Individuality also means that the machines have to be adjusted/programmed every time and the combination of the parts has to be watched. Plus, planning (e.g. lines) has to be adapted to the individual house. Plenty of possible errors.

See above, serial maturity.

I know a prefabricated house where walls were erected that were not in the plan, doors had the wrong width and so on. A prefabricated house is not comparable to a standard product that runs off the line thousands of times every day, even if marketing departments like to evoke this association.

Poor document management resulting in screws and nuts being manufactured according to different released plan versions is significantly rarer with hall-prefab general contractors than with stone-on-stone builders, though.

Many thanks for this massive response! We will then carefully study the corresponding blog post "A house construction roadmap, also for you: the phase model of the HOAI!"

Thank you also for providing context for some statements by other forum members, which has indeed made a few things clearer for me. - I will get back to you again/as soon as we have worked through the series of posts!

Many thanks for this massive response! [...] also for providing context to some statements by other forum members, which have actually made a few things clearer to me now.

Gladly. I was effectively only called into this thread late (you know that I don't spontaneously enter this section), when there were already seventeen pages to plow through. I tried to keep it brief and honestly, it was already too much work for me to sort my comments thematically instead of chronologically.

We will then study the relevant blog post "A house construction roadmap, also for you: the HOAI phase model!" in detail. [...] I will get back to you/again as soon as we have worked through the series of posts!

The house construction roadmap series is complete in "Volume 1" (parts 1 to 5), which explains the roadmap as a "one size fits all royal road." I have started the continuation; several chapters are already online, others are still in progress. They will all deal with meaningful deviations and came about at readers’ requests. Many clients want to use expert services only in certain phases and/or combined from various specialists, e.g. tender accompaniment by independent consultants and a building-supervising expert who was not already the planner. That was the impetus for this continuation.

Also follow the keywords "Teigruhe" and "Weichenstellung" there, which I explain in posts and the construction glossary as well as here in numerous posts. Take advantage of the dialogue option through the comments!
By the way, I have already pointed out several advisor colleagues here in the forum (who sometimes operate differently); after all, I do not hold the patent on truth or wisdom alone. Several of them are also fee-based consultants, but I have also mentioned several recommendable vendor-affiliated colleagues here and in the "Green" forum. Not all sales consultants are bad [hheh], and here I explained five days ago why vendor-affiliated architects do not necessarily have to be a bad choice. You can find me personally introduced in "Here writes the 11ant"; the picture is a snapshot by my beloved, taken near Rhine kilometer 610.

Thanks also for providing context to some statements by other forum members, which have actually made a few things clearer to me now.

Forum threads are like icebergs; the greater part of the benefit regularly lies with the "silent readers." Therefore, the most useful way to thank them is by briefly summarizing your learning successes in a "public" reflection.

Forum threads are like icebergs, the greater part of the benefit regularly comes from the "silent readers." Therefore, the most useful way to thank them is by briefly reflecting on your learning achievements "publicly."

I'll follow up, promised - but for now, we need 2 or 3 days to reflect a bit on the new information - it has actually been 2 or 3 intensive weeks. Especially because we also checked with friends/acquaintances who built themselves - whether and how we can get help there (i.e., with craft services) - and the response was significantly higher than expected (also from people who themselves come from the trades) - this won’t greatly affect the planning, but it does increase our flexibility in some things a bit (and of course brings new knowledge at the same time).

The houses are too individual to achieve real profits through mass production, and subcontracting is just as common in prefabricated houses as in solid construction.

I had highlighted the two insights in bold, individually they mean: The houses are too individual to achieve real profits through mass production and subcontracting is just as common in prefabricated houses as in solid construction.