Financing - Renovation of old stock with high costs: Realistic?

but since underfloor heating is planned as heat emission at 99%, unfortunately we cannot lay historic / thick floorboards because the heat transfer is otherwise strongly impeded (that's what we were told). It has to be something "thin" then.

Oops. I hadn’t read that at all. There are two possibilities. One has already been written by . Giving up underfloor heating. But that doesn’t directly mean giving up cozy heat or surface heating. You can also tilt the underfloor heating and have a wall heating (works 1:1 like underfloor heating, can also be on the ceiling). Or it’s not historic floorboards, but "fake" floorboards. It’s called parquet. You can look under plank flooring / country house planks. Almost like solid planks (e.g. 280 cm long and 26 cm wide), but still suitable for underfloor heating. Or parquet made from reclaimed wood. It can look like this: But it also works with solid historic floorboards. 20-30 mm thick solid wood floorboards are easily possible. For example, in a dry system without classic wet screed. So like in the past when floorboards were nailed/screwed onto structural timbers. Today, insulation and underfloor heating go into the spaces in between. If you prefer tiles, retro/vintage is also available everywhere. With a lot of imagination and thinking outside the box, an incredible amount is possible.

That is probably also a question of personality. You can look back in 10 years and say: oh, if only we had... Everything would have gone well. Or you do it and make the best of it. Even if one breadwinner drops out, their "income" does not immediately drop to zero. Depending on the cause, there is initially unemployment benefit or sick pay. A death would need to be properly insured against. The biggest risk beyond that would be a separation. I, as a single mother with a fixed-term contract, took on the risk about six years ago. So far, everything has worked out. Inflation hit me hard, but it was still manageable. Even I am just complaining at a high level. Out of curiosity, since I am also from Thuringia: in which city do you live? The only problem could be that a property in rural Thuringia might then not be worth as much as the renovation costs. In case the circumstances are ever such that a sale is considered.

Maybe you can say more about the property and show a few photos? That way, it's easier to assess whether the 640k from the architect is underestimated. How is the wall structure? Is the roof completely damaged or are the beams still good? Any animals inside? What about ceiling heights? Where are they? Is there mold or wet walls? What connections are available in the street, do you still need to develop parts? How is the water disposal planned? Are there elaborate decorative elements on the house like e.g. shutters or stucco etc? And so on. Tell me!

We are currently renovating a house from 1915. The condition of the house was from the 70s. For the size of your apartment, I would almost estimate closer to 450k. It always depends on how much personal effort you can contribute.

It’s been my job for almost 30 years.

Okay, then maybe one sees such things differently.

What will you do when you have €2,300 cold rent in five years? The same as with a €2,500 installment that you can’t pay. Look for a new apartment or a new house (yes, selling isn’t nice, but it’s not terrible either). So what. You can “whine” or just take a life risk. And from today’s perspective, that risk is very manageable for you.

That’s probably how one has to see it. Somewhat pragmatically. Of course, selling might be an option then, but definitely a very unpleasant one. It surely wouldn’t be the end of the world. Thanks for the somewhat relativizing and encouraging words.

You can also tilt the underfloor heating and have a wall heating (works 1:1 like underfloor heating, also possible on the ceiling).

We had considered wall heating but opted for underfloor heating because wall heating combined with half-timbered construction and insulation would have been somewhat more elaborate according to the architect, and my husband was additionally afraid that at some point we might drive a nail into the wall and forget that there are water pipes inside. But you are basically right, of course, since it is possible as an alternative.

You can look up “Schlossdielen” / “Landhausdielen.” Almost like solid planks (e.g. 280cm long and 26cm wide), but still suitable for underfloor heating. Or parquet made from reclaimed wood.

Thanks for the tip. We had also thought in the direction of “Landhausdielen.” I used the word “laminate” somewhat carelessly. As I said, I just wanted to refer to a “thin flooring” without specifying what type.

The only problem might be that a property in rural Thuringia might not be worth as much as the renovation costs. In case circumstances ever come up where a sale is needed.

I can imagine that too. But of course you don’t really know that beforehand, right? As the saying goes: “it’s worth as much as someone else is willing to pay for it.” You can probably only assess that when the time comes (hopefully never).

Maybe you can say more about the property and show some photos?

I would rather not show photos. But I can definitely say more.
It is about a roughly 250 to 300 years old farmhouse, although we have received very different statements from experts.
Some say it was built at the beginning of the 19th century, whereas the responsible person from monument protection even suspected that it was the first house in the village and does not rule out that it is over 500 up to possibly 700 years old.

The ground floor comprises a rubble stone foundation wall; the first floor and the attic are half-timbered. Unfortunately, the half-timbering is no longer “original,” as the building apparently burned down about 150 years ago. That means the half-timbering is already about 150 years old but not as old as the foundation walls.

The roof has a one-sided gable damage, which we patched up poorly. Due to years of water intrusion, parts of the half-timbering have major damage, but the architect and a monument expert have examined both the half-timbering and the roof truss and confirmed that the building structure is still very solid. Rafters, collar beams, etc. are intact and also statically strong enough to even carry a solar system. At the site of the gable damage, of course, the wooden support structure must be comprehensively replaced.

There is no mold. Only the cellar is damp. However, it will be filled anyway as it is only a 1.2-meter-high potato cellar.

Animals have of course been present during the vacancy period, but essentially just raccoons or similar.
We received one condition: we should restore habitats for bats. But that is no problem because the building originally had wooden paneling on the west side of the upper floor, which we want to restore and integrate bat nesting places into.

The room height varies greatly. On the ground floor, it is about 240cm; on the upper floor only 210cm. In the attic, of course, it is difficult to specify because of the roof slopes.

Connections are all in the street. Inside the house, there is currently only water. Electricity used to come via overhead cable from the nearest pole. We want to change that and lay an underground cable. For a year now, there has even been fiber optics in the village. So a lot seems to have happened in rural areas in terms of expansion. Wastewater disposal is supposed to be via a small sewage treatment plant.

There were only a few elaborate decorative elements. Whether there used to be shutters is no longer discernible. If so, their fixings were removed at some point. But we would like to have shutters installed again (later on when money is available since it’s not a priority).
On the ground floor, all doors and windows are set in sandstone; the front door has a conspicuously elaborate sandstone portal. Windows and doors are multipart. The farmhouse windows look very nice, and those are what we want to orient ourselves on. Unfortunately, due to their age, they cannot be reused or only with great effort, as they are single-glazed.
Otherwise, there are wooden frames at the windows on the first floor which are elaborately decorated, but according to monument protection, they probably have no historical value and therefore can be removed. According to the responsible official, such frames are absolutely unusual for farmhouses (farmers build rather practically and not fancy) so she suspects they were added afterwards in the 1930s to 1950s.

In conclusion, it can be said: the building is in strong need of renovation and in a very poor external condition, but the structure (according to experts) is good, and there is no substantial damage that is statically relevant.

For your apartment size, I would almost expect €450k. It always depends on how much personal labor you can contribute.

The amount of personal labor before moving in I described in the initial post.
Of course, we also want to do quite a bit ourselves after moving in.

Wow, that sounds pretty expensive between the lines, if you ask me. You guys need to be aware that you probably will never get back the money you put in. Tell me again, what are the exterior dimensions of the building and what kind of roof does it have. The 2.10m on the upper floor is obviously a pain. Something like that will always remain a niche property.