External insulation WDVS on 24 cm Poroton or alternatives?

  • Erstellt am 2013-02-25 12:18:09

einstratege

2013-02-25 12:18:09
  • #1
Hello,

we are currently building a Kfw70 house with about 180 m²
Outside 24 cm Poroton masonry, heating gas + hot water solar
No ventilation system
Planned external insulation: ETICS 20 or 24 mm

Now there are some interesting programs about the insulation craze with ETICS
It would be wrong, flammable, moisture between ETICS and masonry, etc. etc.

Therefore, we came across a wood fiber insulation material.
This is available, for example, from Knauf or also Unger.

Our architect says there is no reason to deviate from ETICS.

What are the views on this?
 

€uro

2013-02-25 13:36:04
  • #2
I would dispense with a solar thermal system and take advantage of the 15% rule, especially with gas condensing boilers. Because here the consumption is always higher than the actual heating energy demand. In addition, solar thermal systems in single-family houses are usually uneconomical.
What self-proclaimed "experts" sometimes proclaim is more than worrying.
Basically, I share the opinion of the separation of powers in the exterior wall. However, one should then also be consistent. 17.5 cm of the load-bearing layer of the envelope is usually, with appropriate compressive strength, completely sufficient. Added to this is the corresponding storage effect.

Best regards.
 

einstratege

2013-02-25 14:23:01
  • #3
Hello,

ok, but that was not the question I have probably also heard that this is not necessarily cost-effective.
But I have no knowledge of a 15% rule .....

Anyone who has opinions on [WDVS], always welcome....
 

€uro

2013-02-25 15:55:53
  • #4
Understandable for a layperson, but the architect or proof creator should definitely have knowledge here. I have already written quite a bit about this here => SuFu

Best regards
 

Shism

2013-02-26 15:16:14
  • #5


These programs have a certain entertainment value, but I wouldn’t exactly describe them as reliable sources of information ^^

Especially the arguments from KoFi, who apparently gets to chime in on every program, I always find quite amusing... Solar gains... don’t make me laugh...

What problems do you again expect from a ETICS made of EPS?

Flammable?
Under certain conditions, almost everything is flammable... Does a properly installed ETICS burn spectacularly during a room fire, as reported in the 45-minute program by NDR? There is now a statement on the Internet about this exact program saying that the test setup did not correspond to real conditions, especially due to the chimney effect... Recently, there was another such fire test on Welt der Wunder... a room fire was simulated by the fire brigade on a wall insulated with EPS... everything burned except the EPS... can be found on rtl2’s website...
I also don't know of many fires in single-family homes that have been traced back to ETICS...

Moisture?
Of course, you should make sure during installation that everything is sealed properly and that water cannot continuously run behind the ETICS... But I wouldn’t see such gross installation errors as a general disadvantage of ETICS... Or would you refrain from buying a car because the gasoline engine doesn’t work anymore if you put diesel in it?

Hazardous waste?
What does hazardous waste mean? That it has to be disposed of separately and not just thrown in the regular trash? Most construction debris has to be delivered separately anyway... For 100 kg of EPS, I pay about €21 at my local disposal facility... you can get rid of a whole house facade for less than €100...

One could go on forever like this... The fact is that most of the arguments are not sound but mostly scare tactics or simply hardly relevant! EPS is, for example, not particularly diffusion-open! Is that bad now? Actually no, because the amount of moisture that diffuses through the walls is minimal and almost negligible anyway! Whether that’s 1% or 2% doesn’t matter... you have to ventilate to get rid of the moisture! But it sounds good when you say that the whole thing is not diffusion-open... at first it sounds like a musty climate inside ^^

And it’s not as if a monolithic wall construction, whether Poroton or aerated concrete, is without disadvantages... I think of cracking, summer heat protection, thick walls, special anchors in the interior, etc... often with a nice extra charge!

If I were you, I wouldn’t let myself panic but would critically question every single point that bothers you about ETICS!

Of course, you can also build without ETICS! You just shouldn't believe that you have built the "better" or even "healthier" house that way... other factors often play a much bigger role!
 

€uro

2013-02-26 15:23:42
  • #6
D´accore!

v.g.
 

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