A planned kitchen and a big request for your advice

Dear Ikea fans – I/we urgently need your valued advice as well as hints and tips regarding our planned Ikea kitchen.

This is my first post here, and whether I will actually become an IKEA fan remains to be seen – but it is a really great forum, many thanks for the previous posts!!! They have already helped us make some important decisions (one of them was/is that we decided on an IKEA kitchen).

We (i.e. my wife and I) live in Switzerland and are currently in the (detailed) planning phase of a medium-sized (or rather small) kitchen. Unfortunately, we are constantly “floating” back and forth in our evaluation (and upcoming procurement) of the components.

In particular, there are unfortunately no (or hardly any useful) experiences and/or test results available online for some electrical appliances (as they apparently are new models at IKEA). It is even more difficult for us to make a decision because the IKEA electrical appliances here in Switzerland cost almost double (the refrigerator even more than double)! Sometimes I wonder whether it might make more sense to buy so-called “brand name” appliances instead of IKEA appliances… because the price differences to DE (or EU) are not that huge and there might be more experiences available with such appliances…. But that is another topic.
Okay, apparently IKEA appliances are also so-called brand name appliances BUT, for example, with Electrolux we have had VERY bad experiences. Most appliances from this manufacturer (such as vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, washing machines) have long since been disposed of and replaced with other brand name appliances. The still existing ones (stove, cooktop, refrigerator) are ALL more or less (semi-)defective and only run in a way that they can still be used but with significant limitations. But that is no condition (obviously). With Whirlpool, on the other hand, we have no or hardly any experience.
We have not replaced the described “semi-defective” Electrolux appliances so far because they are so-called CH standard, which we have also had enough of, and no longer want in the house. However, compromises have to be made here because in some “corners” this and that simply no longer fits… Thus, for this reason, we are now “forced” to take, for example, a 45 cm dishwasher, since – with 113 cm available width – there is either a 60 cm machine and a 50 cm base cabinet for the sink (current situation) or an IKEA base cabinet of 60 cm and an IKEA “medelstor” dishwasher fit.

Now I would like to summarize what we have planned so far. But first, I will try to describe the existing kitchen or rather the kitchen room (and hope that I manage it reasonably well).

It is a so-called open kitchen in the shape of “I” and “C” letters. The “C” letter is of course not round and so to speak “stands on its head” – meaning that the opening of the C letter does not face right but towards the “I letter.” The I letter represents a central block (its dimensions are: L: 2.5m, W: 62cm and H: 2.12m) and the (turned) C letter represents the “typical” kitchen equipment, i.e. wet area, cooking area and base cabinets with a (1.8m x 40cm) bar countertop on top. Between the “I” and the (turned) “C” there is about 1 m of space (at the “top” a garden door, at the “bottom” a passage).

Uufff, it is not easy to explain! However, I hope the description of how the (current) kitchen looks is accurate.

For the “larger” changes to the existing design, we unfortunately have very little or almost no leeway. Only the central block – we call it central block because it stands between the entrance and garden doors – can be extended from 2.5 to max. 3 m (5 times 60 cm wide or 1 time 40 plus 4 times 60 cm wide tall cabinets) and raised from 2.12 m to 2.28 m, and in the C letter, the 45, 50, or 55 cm cabinets shall finally disappear. The previous 60 cm ceramic cooktop shall be replaced by an 80 cm induction cooktop. Furthermore, the middle column shall be equipped with a larger refrigerator (without freezer compartment) and newly with an oven and microwave oven.

Okay, we spent almost 12 hours (!) at IKEA last Friday and came up with a new kitchen made up of the following components and appliances:
Furniture:
- We decided on METOD with white/glossy fronts and Lansa handles (glossy white brings a certain elegance) and solid wood countertop (oak?/beech? brings warmth, or maybe granite???)
- HÄLLVIKEN built-in sink 1 basin, black quartz composite – possibly not as sensitive as stainless steel

Electrical appliances:
- Högvärdig induction cooktop, bridge function, black
- Underverk stainless steel built-in extractor hood (also 80 cm)
- Kulinarisk oven, stainless steel
- GENAST microwave with convection
- MEDELSTOR integrated dishwasher
- FROSTIG built-in refrigerator 319 L.. A

As already mentioned, unfortunately, we have hardly found any useful information on the electrical appliances online, except:
- Frostig refrigerator – A French YouTube video showing the quite high noise level (instead of the declared 34dB). This YouTube video unsettled us very much!!!
- Medelstor dishwasher – no posts about quality, but several people seem to be trying to sell these dishwashers (these are quite new appliances, what could that mean: bad purchase???/dissatisfaction???)
- HÖGVÄRDIG induction cooktop – no useful information/experiences found for us
- UNDERVERK extractor hood – likewise, nothing found

I would be VERY grateful for all hints, tips, links but especially warnings and “not-recommendations” regarding our plans. Everything that helps us move forward in this matter (but also keeps us from certain ideas) is enormously important. We are no longer the youngest but still both working and have little desire and energy (often also health is an issue) to deal with any complaints, repairs, and replacements. We no longer believe in the so-called brand name appliances either, because what was true a few years ago unfortunately no longer applies. Here, I particularly want to address the so-called “Chinaware” (representing cheap production). Unfortunately, this has become almost ubiquitous, and the blame usually lies not with the poor “Chinese” but with the clients (i.e. managers) who are more interested in filling their own pockets than delivering consistent quality… but this and that is again another topic and might not get us much further.

Many thanks in advance for EVERYTHING – that helps us along (and/or keeps us from certain things ) – and warm regards from Switzerland
Chris

Hello Chris, the best thing is to first create a kitchen according to your ideas with the 3D kitchen planner and then post the link to your plan here. With this basis, it is easier to bring in ideas.

If I had had such bad experiences with Electrolux, I would buy appliances from other manufacturers. There are only the following problems. Built-in flat screen extractor hoods are hardly available in 80 cm width. Berbel has something on offer, the quality is very good, the price very high. Here I would perhaps rely on the UNDERVERK after all.
If you have read quite a bit here in the forum, then probably also that only XXL models with vario hinges from Bosch/Siemens/Neff fit easily with dishwashers. Miele also works, but is more expensive. However, there are no XXL devices in 45 cm width. The options left are then only 1) take the MEDELSTOR, 2) ask IKEA immediately if BEHJÄJPLIG is still in stock somewhere and buy it right away, 3) raise the plinth to at least 9 cm and mount the dishwasher front with about 8 cm overhang.

Hello IKEA expert

Thank you very much for your quick reply!

No hard feelings, but I will unfortunately no longer dare to create a complete kitchen plan with the 3D kitchen planner. My free time available is simply far too precious for that. *** please, please continue reading*** IKEA is indeed somewhat cheaper than other kitchen furniture providers, but on the other hand not so cheap that I would have to rob myself of my already scarce sleeping hours by participating in evaluation, design, planning, and assembly. Above all, please (!) read on and don’t misunderstand me. I simply have absolutely no desire (and nerves) left to spend hours entering the various objects and their values, the cabinets, fronts, appliances, and then watch how the whole thing suddenly freezes, crashes (whatever) and becomes absolutely unusable (I even had to experience “boot tut gut”). This 3D fiasco 100% does not depend on my infrastructure but on the quality of the 3D kitchen planner! This software is unfortunately (simply put) extremely poor and I am not an IKEA beta tester. Possibly it has something to do with some “Switzerland location” extensions, since people in Germany seem to be satisfied with it and/or with various obstacles I also have to deal with in this space and tried to enter as well: a drain pipe in the corner, a drain pipe under the ceiling or huge cable duct on the wall behind the middle block, etc., etc. – all of which remained hidden so far because the existing kitchen is a custom kitchen….

Long story short – although I did create the current plan with the 3D kitchen planner, I gave up on making the complete plan (in one 3D KP file) after several unsuccessful attempts!

I simply split the (overall) kitchen into three separate “kitchens” in the 3D planner (middle block, base cabinets, and wall cabinets) and mercilessly gave up on any doors, windows, obstacles, cable ducts as well as room dimensions (in other words the effective representation of the room and the said kitchen). Therefore, these plans would hardly stimulate your imagination, possibly not help at all and/or even have a counterproductive effect.

For me, currently only the “start to end” values are important – when I assemble such a “block” from several cabinets. I have both the architectural plans of the house and the existing kitchen created with professional programs and (as already mentioned) this design will not change much (if at all).

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If I had such bad experiences with Electrolux, I would buy appliances from other manufacturers.
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Well, in principle I would too, but we are in a somewhat different situation here! First – as far as I understand – the appliances I listed are “IKEA appliances” developed in cooperation with Electrolux and/or Whirlpool. Secondly, by buying these appliances I get a 5-year warranty from IKEA – which to my knowledge Electrolux or Whirlpool do not offer – and this also “somewhat changes” the legal situation.

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If you have read some things here in the forum, then probably also that only XXL models with vario hinges from Bosch/Siemens/Neff fit without problems for dishwashers. Miele works too, but is more expensive. However, there are no XXL appliances in 45 cm width
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No, I haven’t read that yet (or not paid attention to it), since the idea of the narrow dishwasher in favor of wider sink base cabinets only recently emerged. What I did not understand from your explanations are the connections in the quoted passage:
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The remaining options are then 1) to take the MEDELSTOR, 2) immediately ask IKEA if BEHJÄJPLIG is still available somewhere and buy it straight away, 3) raise the base at least 9 cm and mount the dishwasher front with about 8 cm overhang
.
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Regarding 1: that is clear and planned anyway, since MEDELSTOR is the only narrow dishwasher (at least on the IKEA website) that you can buy (at IKEA)
Regarding 2 and 3: Why, what for, and why (???) – Isn’t MEDELSTOR rather a current METOD standard dishwasher (even if it is narrow) that would “seamlessly” fit into the standard METOD kitchen? Besides, MEDELSTOR is the only narrow dishwasher you can select in the said 3D kitchen planner and there is nothing about BEHJÄJPLIG, base or front overhang mounting there…. Another 3D KP “nonsense”?

What are the experiences with this dishwasher (and other appliances listed)?

Again, thank you very much for your quick reply (unfortunately I don’t manage to respond as quickly as you do)
Regards Chris

One small addition: I will have hardly any (or even no) access to the internet the entire upcoming week, therefore I will not be able to respond immediately to your possible answers and comments (at the earliest in a week). So please don't get upset right away.
Thank you very much in advance for your understanding.
Best regards, Chris

Hello Chris,
I can well understand that the 3D planner is too annoying for you. So far, I have hardly been able to use it, as it has only recently been possible to use it with Chrome on Linux. A hand-sketched and scanned floor plan with marked connections, window heights, etc. would also be something.
Is it a rental apartment or your own house? In the case of a house, it might be worth having the water connections moved to another location. That doesn't have to be so expensive.
As far as I know, IKEA is responsible for the design and Electrolux and Whirlpool for the technology of the electrical appliances.
Points 2 and 3 regarding the dishwasher refer to when you take devices from other manufacturers. It should also be noted that someone wrote in another thread that Behjälplig will be available again soon.
The KULINARISK is not exactly cheap. You should at least have compared the devices from Siemens.

Hello IKEA expert
Thank you for the prompt reply!

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For a house, it might be worth having the water connections moved to another location. That doesn’t have to be that expensive.
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Yes, it is a house and no, the arrangement of the appliances (i.e. where they will go) has been decided after quite a long back and forth and I don’t want to change that anymore. Also, dear IKEA expert,,,,, apparently you don’t know much about the costs of certain services here in Switzerland (I didn’t mean it badly of course)

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Points 2 and 3 regarding the dishwasher refer to when you use appliances from other manufacturers.
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Okay, got it – I understood your 2 and 3 as a subsequent listing to 1…

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BEHJÄLPLIG would soon be available again
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Here in Switzerland BEHJÄLPLIG (as far as I have seen) is readily available, so it could either be leftover stock or already a new supply…

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The KULINARISK is not exactly cheap. At least you should have compared the appliances from Siemens.
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Why Siemens??? I already wrote a short explanation of my opinion about the so-called “brand appliances” in my first thread. Our current Siemens dishwasher is actually the direct successor of the disposed Electrolux machine. Back then I bought one of the most expensive models…. What do I have now??? Brittle (and broken off) plastic parts inside and rather difficult-to-get spare parts, which are “almost unpayable” for that! Of course, all this didn’t break during the warranty period but shortly afterwards…. Siemens was for a long time (together with Bosch) my favorite company – definitely not anymore . I also disposed of a Bosch vacuum cleaner (which was actually a test winner) during the warranty period because it broke and I had bought it in Germany (you couldn’t get it here somehow and I wanted something good). The whole process with the claim was a) disgusting to me and b) much too complicated …. and one more thing: you obviously can no longer repair these things without expensive special tools…
Okay IKEA expert, I am no longer 20 and therefore I definitely no longer trust big corporations! Therefore, now EVERYTHING that works reasonably WELL and has a LONG WARRANTY is good for me, because if a manufacturer gives 5 years warranty, it must mean something, right? (but we will probably only find out in a few years). Whether it ultimately comes from Electrolux or not is absolutely irrelevant to me if I buy it as an IKEA product and am reasonably covered for the next 5 years…

Okay, as already mentioned separately, I am taking a forced break from the kitchen evaluation and have to devote myself to some other things.

Greetings from Switzerland
Chris