Bauexperte
2014-03-26 11:41:05
- #1
Hello Ingo,
I see you more on the offensive – you want info on the "how," then you have to provide the users here with "food," and as precise as possible.
I have been doing my job long enough not to be unable to read between the lines.
The drainage will likely have to be changed since you are altering the existing flow volume of the wastewater pipes. Whether the wall can be moved, no one can answer who does not know the multi-family house you live in. Is it a statically effective wall, i.e., does it have a load-bearing function? Since you don’t have the static calculations, it is logical that you need to consult a structural engineer.
No house is like another! No change to the substance is comparable with another! If the architect confirms his statement in writing (in case it is not correct at the moment; old plans sometimes have their peculiarities and people make mistakes) then all is well. I do not dare to make such a remote diagnosis and probably other users here don’t either. For example, if you had directly spoken of lightweight construction at the beginning of your post, helpful DIY enthusiasts would surely have jumped in.
With a little googling, you could have found the reasons yourself… E.Curb (architect) in my opinion expects initiative.
What radiator niches do
Architects of past decades liked to install heating in niches under the windows, as far as this was desired. By hiding the radiators, a room appears larger and smooth-surfaced. Saving heat energy was no issue at that time. Our generations now have the problem of integrating the existing building fabric in a way that meets current requirements as best as possible. Since the wall in radiator niches is thinner than the rest of the wall, it also cools down more strongly there. A strongly cooled part of a building means a thermal bridge. When the dew point is reached there, condensation initially forms with all its negative consequences. Only the heat from the radiator prevents this from happening. Hence the impression arises that the radiator has to expend more energy because it sits in the radiator niche. Actually, that is true because heat escapes to the outside there. But the extent of energy savings by insulating radiator niches is generally overestimated. Therefore, you should not overdo the effort for the project so that it pays off. Also, improper insulation can even promote the described condensation effect and thus cause even more damage overall.
What insulation makes sense
External insulation will always be preferred, but it cannot be realized everywhere. That is why many manufacturers promote their more or less well thought-out internal insulation systems. The most widespread solutions are certainly those with a reflective foil. This is quite cheap but does not really bring success. Due to the insulation on the inside, the wall cools down more strongly and the dew point moves further inward. As soon as warm air reaches it, condensate and soon mold form. The most radical solution would be to wall up the entire radiator niches and install the radiators in front of the wall. If this is not feasible, you can use a diffusion-open mineral insulation material, fully glued to the wall. Do not forget to insulate the flanks as well, otherwise moisture from other, then cooler surfaces can get behind the insulation. Maintain at least a 5 cm air gap behind the radiator so that convection is not hindered. Ensure a dry façade; driven rain must not penetrate moisture from outside into the wall. If you use a vapor barrier, it must be absolutely airtight, which is often so difficult that it does not succeed.
Your chimney sweep is thus the worst possible contact person. Which further proves that external expertise – expertise on site – must be obtained.
Rhenish greetings
No one has asked me here about exact parameters yet,
I see you more on the offensive – you want info on the "how," then you have to provide the users here with "food," and as precise as possible.
the apartment was by no means a bargain either, I didn't ask here for "cheap" answers either, you’re interpreting that yourself,
I have been doing my job long enough not to be unable to read between the lines.
I’m aware that I still have to invest about 20-25K€ in the apartment, sure I would like to do some things myself as well, generally saves money, only before I go to craftsman companies, I would like to get some information in advance; the bathroom wall should be shifted about 40 cm, under the bathroom is another bathroom, the drainage should not be touched either, I just want to be able to install a bigger shower and have a bit more space in front of the sink and next to the toilet.
The drainage will likely have to be changed since you are altering the existing flow volume of the wastewater pipes. Whether the wall can be moved, no one can answer who does not know the multi-family house you live in. Is it a statically effective wall, i.e., does it have a load-bearing function? Since you don’t have the static calculations, it is logical that you need to consult a structural engineer.
And about external expertise, well, I assumed that in a house building forum, there are also professionals with the expertise you mentioned.
But by now, I have talked to an architect who told me that walls marked with LW on the construction drawing are fundamentally not load-bearing walls, or they only support themselves; at least such a statement could also have been made here by experts in the forum.
No house is like another! No change to the substance is comparable with another! If the architect confirms his statement in writing (in case it is not correct at the moment; old plans sometimes have their peculiarities and people make mistakes) then all is well. I do not dare to make such a remote diagnosis and probably other users here don’t either. For example, if you had directly spoken of lightweight construction at the beginning of your post, helpful DIY enthusiasts would surely have jumped in.
And also the answer that radiator niches are not insulated, without a reason, doesn’t really help me either; my chimney sweep told me exactly the opposite on site; the wall, clinker + ?(wood panel?) behind the radiators is barely 14 cm, and a lot of heating power would just disappear outside, I should insulate it or just wall it up completely, at least that was his statement.
With a little googling, you could have found the reasons yourself… E.Curb (architect) in my opinion expects initiative.
What radiator niches do
Architects of past decades liked to install heating in niches under the windows, as far as this was desired. By hiding the radiators, a room appears larger and smooth-surfaced. Saving heat energy was no issue at that time. Our generations now have the problem of integrating the existing building fabric in a way that meets current requirements as best as possible. Since the wall in radiator niches is thinner than the rest of the wall, it also cools down more strongly there. A strongly cooled part of a building means a thermal bridge. When the dew point is reached there, condensation initially forms with all its negative consequences. Only the heat from the radiator prevents this from happening. Hence the impression arises that the radiator has to expend more energy because it sits in the radiator niche. Actually, that is true because heat escapes to the outside there. But the extent of energy savings by insulating radiator niches is generally overestimated. Therefore, you should not overdo the effort for the project so that it pays off. Also, improper insulation can even promote the described condensation effect and thus cause even more damage overall.
What insulation makes sense
External insulation will always be preferred, but it cannot be realized everywhere. That is why many manufacturers promote their more or less well thought-out internal insulation systems. The most widespread solutions are certainly those with a reflective foil. This is quite cheap but does not really bring success. Due to the insulation on the inside, the wall cools down more strongly and the dew point moves further inward. As soon as warm air reaches it, condensate and soon mold form. The most radical solution would be to wall up the entire radiator niches and install the radiators in front of the wall. If this is not feasible, you can use a diffusion-open mineral insulation material, fully glued to the wall. Do not forget to insulate the flanks as well, otherwise moisture from other, then cooler surfaces can get behind the insulation. Maintain at least a 5 cm air gap behind the radiator so that convection is not hindered. Ensure a dry façade; driven rain must not penetrate moisture from outside into the wall. If you use a vapor barrier, it must be absolutely airtight, which is often so difficult that it does not succeed.
Your chimney sweep is thus the worst possible contact person. Which further proves that external expertise – expertise on site – must be obtained.
Rhenish greetings