Inheritance share, family property, expand living area

Yes, you go to the architect, exactly. The first introductory meeting should also be free; they want to win you as a client. You bring: the current plans of the house, photos, and a hand sketch of how you envision an extension. So you have to come into the meeting with a concrete idea of what you want. You just say what you want and ask if it's possible, if it can possibly be done differently, perhaps better and cheaper, and what it roughly costs in a simple/cheap construction method without frills. You don't reveal your budget. If the estimate and budget don't match, you'll have to see what to do next.

Overall, I also think that above all an architect is the right contact person. Our builder has also done many renovations, maybe someone like that could also work. I can’t remember every detail from the initial post anymore, but was it an option to demolish the barn and build a new building for YOU there? As equity, you could then specify the property. Above all, this would solve the problem that your dad gets an expensive new building for himself while you live in the "cheap" old house. Otherwise, I find your plan rather difficult overall. Acquaintances of ours built a 70 sqm age-appropriate bungalow on their property, but according to them, they also ended up at 250k. And although I have a great relationship with my parents, I also wouldn’t like this version extremely much. For your own new beautiful house, a €200 higher loan installment might still be more comfortable and acceptable than the currently planned option.

Overall, I also think that especially an architect is the right contact person. Our builder has also done a lot of renovations, maybe someone like that could also work. I can't remember every detail from the initial post anymore, but was it an option to tear down the barn and build a new building for YOU there? As equity, you could then specify the land. Above all, that would solve the problem that your dad gets an expensive new building for himself while you live in the "cheap" old house. Otherwise, I see your plan as rather difficult overall. Acquaintances of ours built a 70 sqm age-appropriate bungalow on their property, but according to their statement, they ended up at 250k. And although I have a great relationship with my parents, I wouldn't like this version very much either. For your own new nice house, a €200 higher loan payment might be more pleasant and bearable than the currently planned option.

Hello, thank you very much for thinking along and pointing out an alternative. In this case, my father wants to downsize. He lives alone (he has had a girlfriend for 4 years, she lives in a newly built house but still has a minor child – he does not want to move in there but rather have his own retreat) in the house and I think he also wants a change of scenery. As mentioned, my mother passed away 8 years ago; with her, he bought and renovated the house. Seeing it every day probably also holds one back for the future. I don’t know, that’s speculation and not really important here, but I added it for explanation. Yes, if the result is that we have to put more money in, then we will consider it. So far, we don’t quite understand the numbers. If it is said that you can build for €2000/m², then at 50m² that would be €100,000. Now the demolition of the barn is also added.

Quite complicated with you ;-)

For realistic figures, you could get a normal free quote from a builder for a bungalow with 50sqm. Also, ask a demolition contractor what they would charge for the demolition.
That shouldn’t be a problem, and then you have a rough estimate of what this option could cost. This also varies a lot regionally.

The problem will be that 2000€ won’t work for 50sqm, because you still need expensive things like a bathroom, front door, heating, or roof.
Even with the incidental construction costs, for us 50k, you won’t save a lot just because it’s small.
For example, house connections cost us 12k whether for 50sqm or 200sqm.

But that it is possible for a total of 190k could well be.

I have read through everything again now, since I skimmed a lot at the beginning, because the sketch doesn’t help me at all and thus the brain doesn’t start spinning..

There are no dimensions of the house, no explanations about what kind of buildings these are (like how high, floors, roofs...), yes, how old it is, for example, is also important. A Google Maps screenshot of the surroundings or the property and also a few pictures for the external impression would be interesting.
How big is the existing house? How much space is available here and there to put an extension somewhere? Does the existing house have a full apartment on the ground floor or is a bedroom, a bathroom missing? What condition is it in? Are there windows that would be lost?
I expect the whole package of drafts and drawings that still exist with such a question here.

There are still plenty of problems if... but more on that later.

In summary: She works 100%, you 50%. Both in public service, together 4500€.
Rental apartments cost around 900 cold, houses 1100 cold, and there is nothing proper, or always only with compromises.

You would get just under 400,000€ from the bank, from which you pay off the sister with 28,000€? Is that correct so far?
Let’s assume dad keeps the place with his 4/6, you own 2/6, then you would still have 370,000€?

Why don’t you want to pay at least 100€ more for ownership than what a rental apartment would cost you? Yes, you want to live, but a bit of quality of life would also be quite pleasant for you, that has to be worth 100 or 200€ to you, right?!

We imagine a small place with around 50m2 for him,

Is that also his wish? Does he know about it? Often users imagine a lot regarding their parents here. But only the parents know nothing about it and are ambushed or verbally deprived of their rights.

We both prefer a clear separation. What will be created will be clearly separated, although it is ours. If my father moves out, we would rent it out or our children or we use the outbuilding.

I don’t see a clear separation. One property, an extension on a semi-detached house... that will rather be an ideal separation where each party has their own private space. But that is probably enough for you and that is meant?

As already written, our requirements are low.

I remember that differently:

We want a house with a lot of wood inside. It can also be a log house

Log house: much more expensive... wood: more expensive than stone.
Would it be an option to reuse shed boards? For example, use them as facade materials?

There should be a stove inside

Too expensive.

A small guest room

Another 8 sqm at 16,000 euros...

The disadvantage is the reduction of garden space.

Isn’t having a garden to use in principle already much more quality of life for you instead of showing disadvantages right away? I would see the possibility of building/creating your own home there primarily as a positive thing, no matter how big the garden turns out.

Plots can no longer be clearly separated because garden and barn are shared.

See above

1. The barn will be converted

Such a conversion usually costs more than a new build, because — as you already say — a barn has to be basically dried out and gutted.
You do this when you want to preserve space as a lover with a lot of money or if the existing building must/should remain for legal building reasons.

2. An extension is built onto the barn where the garage stood

As already mentioned: Living rooms may not be built on the boundary (usually 3 meters) to the neighbor. What kind of building is this at the neighbor? If the barn is removed for a new build, you would need to be 6 meters away from this building with living rooms... at least that is my understanding.

3. The barn is demolished. The floating room remains and is integrated into the extension

See point 2

4. The barn and the floating room are demolished and a new building is constructed there

See point 2 or it works, but you need measurements for that.

5. Do you have alternative ideas?

Yes, extension on the right side... but information is missing (see at the very top)

From when does an extension count as an extension?

When it is attached.

We see the difficulty in integrating the floating room into the new building. Because something individual has to be adapted for us, which could increase the price. It would also be a direct extension because the floating room connects both buildings.

Such a project is often expensive. But there are always alternatives. I also see a problem (I only realized this later), that old and new buildings cannot be economically “mixed” if the old building is too old — because due to the energy saving regulation the existing building would then also have to be insulated etc.

Our builder has also done a lot of renovations, maybe someone like that would be possible.

Yes, someone like that works too. Usually you know someone locally who can do and does such things. Often you also know someone through several connections who can take a look at the whole thing regarding the existing building.

There are no dimensions of the house, no explanations about what kind of buildings these are, (like how high, stories, roofs...) yes, how old it is is also important, for example. A Google Maps screenshot of the surroundings or the property and also a few pictures for the external impression would be interesting.

An incredible post! Thank you very much. It took me a bit to gather everything :)
Attached is the estimate from the local court. I tried to leave out as much private information as possible. The rest is included, like the floor plan of the main house, etc. Additionally, there is a floor plan of the utility building. At one point, another extension had been planned by the previous owners but was discarded again. I crossed it out in red. If something important is missing, I will try to add it later.

How big is the existing house?

93m² living area + cellar and attic as usable space about 55m²

How much space is available here and there to put an extension somewhere?

Area of the barn about 7.5*6 = 45m²
Area next to the barn without garage 7.5*8 = 60m²
So if all outbuildings are demolished, you would have an additional 105m² of garden/building area

Does the existing house on the ground floor have a complete apartment or is a bedroom, a bathroom missing? What is its condition? Are there windows that would be lost?

No, the apartment definitely extends over two floors. We want to do the upper bathroom. That is already included in the financial plan. So it does not affect the 170,000. According to the current plan, the windows should not change on the main house.

In summary: She works 100%, you 50%. Both in the public sector, together 4,500€.
Rental apartments are around 900 cold, houses around 1,100 cold, and there is nothing really suitable, or only with compromises.

She is a civil servant. Otherwise, that fits.

From the bank you would get just under 400,000€, of which you pay out your sister with 28,000€? Is that correct so far?

We would take out a loan of 375,000€. That would result in a rate of about 1,300€. 395,000 would then be about 1,400€. The thing with my sister is correct like that.

Let's assume Dad keeps the hut at his 4/6, you own 2/6, you would still have 370,000€?

347,000€ after paying out my sister. What are you getting at? Our idea so far was to buy it completely to strengthen the ideal: "It belongs to US" and later have no payout difficulties in case of inheritance with my sister.

Why don't you actually want to pay 100€ more for ownership than a rental apartment would cost you? Yes, you want to live, but a bit of quality of life would also be quite pleasant, that must still be worth 100 or 200€ to you?!

Did I say that? Then I want to emphasize again: The plan was to build as cheaply as possible. I tried to show our priorities in life. If building so "cheaply" is not possible, then -> we have to increase the budget or other possibilities could also become feasible again.

Is that also his wish? Does he know about it? Often users here imagine a lot about the parents. Only the parents know nothing and are ambushed or verbally disenfranchised.

Yes, he is not yet 60, mentally fit, and we exchange about it regularly. So far, I am very positively surprised.

I don't see a clear separation. One property, an extension to a semi-detached house... that will probably be an ideal separation where each party has their private space. But that's enough for you and is meant here?

Exactly. Ideally, the thing must be OURS. But he can have his own area. He must be the slave :p

Would it be possible to reuse shed boards? For example, to use them further as cladding?

Probably not.

Stove and guest room too expensive.

See above: we are looking for the best at the stated price.
We need a small guest room. That is annoying but necessary. My sister comes from Norway and my father wants her to visit him and be able to stay overnight there. We do not want to take her in ourselves. Additionally, the 8 sqm is also valuable storage space. That is definitely a MUST.

The stove is a WANT. If that absolutely is not proportional, then we can surely talk about it. But it would be very important to us.

Isn't it basically already much more quality of life for you to be able to use a garden, instead of only showing disadvantages?
If I were you, I would see the possibility to build/create your own home there primarily positively, no matter how big the garden turns out.

You are right. Compared to the other options, it was rather on the contra side. I also wrote several times that this project so far feels like a gain for everyone.

Such a conversion is usually more expensive than a new building, because – as you say – a barn is basically dried out and gutted.
You do that if you want to preserve the space as a lover with lots of money or for building code reasons the existing structure must/should remain.

That was also our assumption. But as a layman, you do not understand that 100%. You see a house standing there and think: Yes, perfect, there is already something :p I just wanted to include it as an option because it really is one, just probably too expensive.

As already said: living rooms must not be built on the boundary (usually 3 meters) to the neighbor. What kind of building is that at the neighbor? If the barn is removed for a new building, you would have to be 6 meters away from that building with living rooms... at least that is my understanding.

That is also my understanding. That was also an argument for converting the barn, so the masonry would not change. Only what happens behind it. We suspected fewer problems than with a new building. The neighbor has his garage there. Otherwise, there is only lawn far and wide. I believe the distance garage – house can be different. But I do not know. In any case, the architect did not see that as a problem. What is not allowed are windows facing the neighbor, which means there are only two sides with windows, and/or there must be roof windows.

If it is attached.

You mean stone to stone/wood, or is it also an extension if the connection/electricity is attached?

I want to once again sincerely thank you for your effort and am curious about what ideas you have!!!!