HvH combines air heat pump with panel radiators - temperature values?

Oh. One more additional piece of information. From September 14-15 I consumed 6293 kWh of gas, including hot water. An installed wood-burning stove is not included in the calculation, as it will only be properly used from autumn 2015. Including the costs for the gas meter, I have had an average monthly cost for gas of: 48.90 euros. Of course, a little electricity is added for the circulation pump, but that's not much, can almost be rounded down to zero. Heating energy demand with hot water (not primary energy demand): about 48 kWh/sqm/a. Gas costs about 5.7 - 6.2 cents per kWh, depending on the provider. Electricity for heat pump about 21 cents per kWh. An air-to-water heat pump must therefore – as of today – have an annual performance factor in the approximate range of 3 in order to be profitable without imputed interest for additional costs. That works, but not with flat radiators and high supply temperatures. Costs for hot water generation with solar support are virtually negligible....([See further post from me]).

Hello Andreas,

Thanks for your substantial contribution. Although they are "only" your numbers, they are at least an approach to further calculations. We don't want underfloor heating – just like you, it has nothing to do with the higher investment costs. I just wouldn't be willing to save (let's say) 5000 euros now, only to have additional costs of the same amount over the course of 10 years.
I think it is clear that without underfloor heating I won't achieve an annual performance factor below 3. The place of residence is on the edge of the Swabian Alb, at 500m altitude. Not there anyway. But since, based on previous experience (own home), I provide about 30% of the heating power needed with a wood stove (several meters of wood per year), a lower efficiency of the heat pump won't be that noticeable anyway. It is supposed to run mainly during the not-so-cold transitional period. At very low temperatures, we heat thoroughly.

I would prefer the air heat pump mainly because of the low effort, since I don't have a gas connection and want to see the "black one" as little as possible.....

If you already have a wood stove, the black one is standing at the door anyway, right? Your neighborhood can be pretty rough in winter, but whether you always want to carry wood through the house and have to start a fire in the morning first...

Hi oil sludge.

Then we have the same home, even though I, as a native Ulm sparrow (lived there and in the NU district for 30 years), moved to NRW. I still love my home above all and like to be there very much and quite often.

Well - the Alb is a bit rougher than the Bergisches Land...... But quite comparable in parts.

Heating with wood: suits my taste, I have been doing it since autumn 2015.

You are sure to make the right decision for yourself. Without a gas connection on site - the situation looks different. Would a pellet heating system be something for you?
The neighboring buildings here (Systembau NCC) are each heated in 12-unit groups by a decentralized pellet system. It significantly reduces the primary energy factor, works brilliantly after initial difficulties.

Thorsten

PS: My chimney sweep comes 3 times a year - determined by my planned usage profile of the wood stove. As the last sweeping 2.5 weeks ago showed: not wrong. Despite using beech wood < 10% residual moisture, quite a bit of dirt is produced, which I would not have expected. The main costs here are for the wood stove; the costs for the gas heating are comparatively low in maintenance. Regardless: The heat that a fireplace or wood stove generates is so brilliant that I do not want to look at the costs here, but rather place my resulting well-being above them. I also plan my own production of wood, I have managed a part of it, but that will only pay off later. I still lack experience here, as well as appropriate storage options and capacity.

. This is a philosophy. Of course, chopping wood, carrying wood, and so on are basically unpleasant, as they involve a lot of work.

But there are people who enjoy that from time to time.

At my sister's place in Neu-Ulm, the house (300 sqm living space) is basically heated only with wood. Of course, the house also has a modern central heating system. But nobody wants it... because the warmth from the stove is simply so cool. Okay - the 17 kW burner as a wood stove is well sized... it heats the house and you can get wood in the area through connections at prices that are okay (here in NRW you can't get that as easily... dry wood is expensive here!!!)

The person who gets up earliest in the morning just starts the fireplace at my sister's. When I'm there, I like to do that. Duration: 2 minutes, if you know how. Including getting firewood from the basement. Meanwhile: the coffee is brewing. Then the crackling in the stove with the first cup of coffee... a piece of quality of life.

Since the house is older: you have to heat up in the morning.

When the stove runs in the evening here in my foil_bags energy-saving place, I don’t need to light it again before 4 p.m.... so unfortunately the custom is omitted... coffee without crackling.

Thorsten

Hi Thorsten,

I don't have space for pellets (no basement). So that's out. Whether solar thermal is worthwhile (see your other post) is initially irrelevant, since as a single item it is not up for discussion due to the Energy Saving Ordinance. So gas boiler with solar or air-to-water heat pump. Amortization only needs to be considered in relation to the additional costs (electricity) for the air-to-water heat pump due to hot water preparation in the context of the overall balance. Or in other words: How many kWh do I need more for hot water preparation with the heat pump compared to the omitted solar thermal system.

These calculations are, however, relative with regard to the comfort gain of an air-to-water heat pump. Since I don't have a gas connection, that means a gas tank. Underground is hardly recommended nowadays - after 10 years the tank is at risk of failing the TÃœV inspection because since this year only the (nonsensical) current injection method is approved as a testing method. Many perfectly sound tanks fail this test (talk with tank supplier). Above ground means an unsightly bump in the front garden and having to leave a lot of space (set building back in the building window) due to large safety zones. Plus refueling every year. And finally having the chimney sweep come into the house once again a year (in our house, chimney and oil heating and burner inspection always happen at separate appointments).

If the air-to-water heat pump at 22-standard radiators causes significantly more costs than a gas boiler (and that with higher initial investment) - then this comfort gain is relativized again at some point.

Maybe real experience values for the air-to-water heat pump on radiators will come in yet.

A bit off-topic: we see things similarly regarding wood. Nothing beats a wood stove. Chopping wood can be a nice strenuous and at the same time relaxing activity if you don’t do physical work in daily life. And if you are tech-savvy, you also have the justification for the management for acquiring several spruce mopeds in different sizes and colors
Regarding your comment about the "bag" house, here are my experiences with the wood stove:
Nice (subjective) wood stoves have a large glass pane (that's my claim). This requires large fireboxes, because only those have a large glass pane. Large fireboxes lead, however, to too high heat output of the stove in relation to the heating demand of an energy-saving house. This means the wood stoves are constantly operating in partial load mode, which in turn reduces efficiency and increases soot formation. So it’s just 26°C in the living room at an outside temperature of -10°C. Ecologically certainly questionable but simply.....

Regards
Michael