Floor plan feedback single-family house for 4-5 people, 200 sqm on a 500 sqm plot in BW

Hello dear forum,

by now, we are slowly getting to the concrete construction planning. We were lucky to purchase a nice building plot with an (too old) existing building at a good price and now want to spend the saved money on building the house.
The existing building has been unheated and empty for 30 years and has some broken windows. So it is weathered inside and out, moldy and damp. Advantage: It is already partially gutted and contains no harmful substances. Initial bids for the demolition assume around 30,000 EUR all-in demolition costs. The money is already reserved and not included in the construction budget.

Here is the questionnaire:

Development plan/restrictions
Development plan from the 1930s. Still valid but there have already been many approved deviations in the neighborhood. We can also look at what has already been approved and have a chance to get ours approved as well. The development plan stipulates a building line 4m from the street along the east side of the house. The east-west orientation is determined by the neighboring buildings in the same block.
1 VG and 2 VG plus attic are approvable. A pitched roof with a slope of "about 50°" must be built. We are currently planning with 2 VGs.

Plot size
512 sqm, almost square (see floor plan).

Slope
Slightly sloping towards the street (see cross-section).

Number of parking spaces
2

Maximum heights/limits
Should blend into the neighborhood. The planner designed the building height so that it linearly continues the existing roof height in the row of houses.

Client requirements
KFW40 house, approx. 150–170 sqm (this was the initial wish, although the wife wanted it a bit bigger). That’s how it turned out.

Number of persons, age
2 adults + 2 children (3+6 years) + temporarily an au pair for the next few years. Possibly a third child later. Who can really see that far into the future? + 1–4 cats.

Space requirements on the floors:
There is some history here:
Originally, we wanted to distribute all rooms over 2 VG. Then the planner came and explained that we would probably have to at least realize the attic. And then we thought: why not use it, make the house a bit smaller in footprint, and distribute the rooms over 3 floors. So now with the attic:
Basement (UG): Technology (controlled residential ventilation, heat pump, photovoltaic inverter plus battery, washing machine + dryer), hobby and workroom (home office, gaming, painting, sports, etc...) + storage space.
Ground floor (EG): Living room approx. 35 sqm was stipulated. Plus separated kitchen. Guest WC plus storage room. Pantry optional. Large wardrobe area.
Upper floor (OG): 3 equally sized children’s rooms for the children and the au pair. Also a suitable bathroom where a washer-dryer stack could be placed if going up and down becomes too annoying. Central access to the balcony (which will be enclosed for the cats so they can go outside when the door is open).
Attic (DG): Parent area: bedroom, storage for clothes + bathroom.

Guest sleepers per year
Initially one permanent guest for 2 to 4 years (au pair), visitors who stay overnight are rather rare. I would put them depending on the temperature either in the living room or in the hobby basement.

Open or closed architecture
Rather closed.

Conservative or modern construction
Don’t really know what the difference is.

Open kitchen, cooking island
Definitely a closed kitchen. Island is drawn in but I don’t really see it working in that room.

Number of dining seats
6 to 8 in the living room

Fireplace
No

Music/stereo wall
Uh, if that means the TV wall: yes, but for extra music rather no. Our music tastes are too different for that. We rather work with headphones.

Balcony, roof terrace
Balcony desired. Initially for the cats. Later maybe also for the children when they want to hang out with friends there.

Garage, carport
Preference is for a wooden carport for 2 cars with a shed behind it. The planner says a prefabricated garage (6x9m) is the cheaper solution due to its all-in nature.

Utility garden, greenhouse
Not initially. Lots of play area for the kids. Maybe later. Maybe there will also be a garden plot then. Preferably a rainwater cistern for garden irrigation.

House design

Who is the planner:
Freelance building planner (who also takes over construction management) and works together with a freelance architect.

What do you like particularly? Why?
We really like the attic (even if we’re still considering planning a dormer in the dressing room). The 4 equally sized rooms upstairs promise a lot of flexibility.
The ground floor has a suitable living room and a nice kitchen that, depending on further preferences and kitchen planning, can still be expanded by the pantry area. That’s not yet decided.

What do you not like? Why?
Since we have a child with behavioral issues, we would like to close the stairs. This is rather not possible here. In general, the house has become bigger than we wanted (mostly probably due to the attic). Guest WC and storage room on the ground floor are quite small.

Price estimate according to architect/planner:
Built-in volume * 650€ per cbm = approx. 800,000 EUR turnkey in individual contract including garage, incidentals and VAT. Plus external facilities + photovoltaic.

Personal price limit for the house, incl. equipment:
850,000€ is an emotional limit for us. Currently, aside from the paid-off plot, we have 350,000 in liquid equity. A first bank meeting resulted in a financing framework up to approx. 500,000€ including 170,000€ via the KFW 300 program. Unfortunately, we do not qualify for the L-Bank Z20 loan.
We plan to have the house calculated by a professional cost estimator to get a more reliable cost estimate. After that, there will probably be a trimming round. The planning for the cost estimator is currently based on the maximum equipment.

Favored heating technology:
Heat pump (no district heating there). Ground-source heat pump preferred since no noise and thus no conflict potential with neighbors. But possibly also a quiet air-to-water heat pump. The money for drilling is never recouped. The ring trench collector technology, often promoted in a neighboring forum, is also an option. However, probably no installation as a self-performed job. Photovoltaics to supply the heat pump. Is mandatory anyway since it is being built in BW, Stuttgart metropolitan area.

If you have to do without, on which details/extensions
Haha, that depends on whom you ask:
- Can you do without:
Pantry
Bathroom size on the upper floor
Possibly the 3rd children’s room upstairs. But then converting the basement to living height would be considered.
Balcony (would hurt us a lot)
Dormer in the roof (not even planned here).
Possibly also the extra-long part of the garage if there is an equivalent garden tool shed available.
- Cannot do without:
Large master bathroom with 2-person bathtub
Storage = usable area
Hobby or workroom.

Why did the design turn out the way it is?
Yes, we already like it quite a bit. All wishes were implemented accordingly, even if the house overall could be about 20 sqm smaller. But that is difficult if you don’t want to make the rooms smaller at the same time.

Which wishes were implemented by the architect?
Almost all. He talked us out of a few during the planning phase because they were too expensive, not feasible, or impractical.

What do you think makes it particularly good or bad?
Well, I’d say it’s a somewhat large standard single-family house. The total area could definitely be reduced a bit more. Perhaps it will have to be after the result of the cost estimator (if it is available) teaches us that we planned well above our pain threshold price-wise.

I think when we have the cost estimator’s result, we will have to negotiate hard over the first reduction round. For that and also generally about the floor plan, I look forward to your feedback.

First the site plans: (green marked are the public roads. There are two that border the plot: on the east and south sides.)

[ATTACH alt="Nachbarbeb.png"]92137[/ATTACH]

Here the building section: We are also considering leaving the attic simply open so that you can see up to the roof ridge and use the beams as a design element. Also note the lower basement which clearly has utility character.

[ATTACH alt="Schnittv2.png"]92139[/ATTACH]

Now the floor plans from bottom to top:

Basement:
[ATTACH alt="UGv2.png"]92140[/ATTACH]

Ground floor:
[ATTACH alt="EGv2.png"]92136[/ATTACH]

Upper floor:
[ATTACH alt="OGv2.png"]92138[/ATTACH]

Attic:
[ATTACH alt="DGv2.png"]92135[/ATTACH]

Now I am looking forward to your comments and am ready to answer any questions.
If I have forgotten anything important, I will add it later.

Thank you very much and see you soon.

200 sqm living space. + full basement + extra-long double garage and then also in a probably relatively expensive area (BW).

I would now estimate 600k (+x) for the house, 100k for the basement, 40k for the garage, and then the usual additional costs calculated. This can quickly become tight with your desired budget.

Does such a large house really need the full basement? Or does it really have to be 200 sqm? If there is money left over, no problem.

Hello Nordanney,
thank you very much for the suggestion. Yes, I also believe that the whole thing might be a bit tight budget-wise. The first planning that the planner showed was about 230 sqm of living space plus a basement. In that plan, only the ground floor and the upper floor were developed. The basement was planned as storage space. The attic would also have been storage. So optimal conditions to do without the basement (or half the basement). The price is less garden, due to more house footprint.

In the second (main) version (which is shown here), the house has become about 0.5m narrower to save built-up space. I could imagine taking away another meter in length, but somehow I always end up in a dilemma:
I can imagine the floor plan in the upper floor and attic just as well if the length is a bit shorter.
But the ground floor doesn’t really work anymore if you take away another meter: the living room becomes too narrow and tubular for me. And I haven’t had the brilliant idea yet of how to realize the ground floor on a smaller area.

The full basement is actually still under discussion. We could certainly manage with a partial basement. The planner said you can save about €50,000 if you cut away half. The question is what you give up then: hobby room + one storage room? Or both storage rooms? One storage room could certainly be eliminated. But the total sum wouldn’t shrink substantially.

Otherwise, we also considered simply pulling the balcony inside the house as a loggia. That way the upper floor becomes smaller by about 16 sqm. But the built-up space hardly changes... I can’t imagine that bringing big savings.

I am of the opinion that every euro well invested in the planning phase saves ten times as much later on. Hence also the investment in the construction calculator, so that in the end we can estimate how much we still have to cut. Then we will see if we have to shorten the house by another meter, or if we should better fill in the basement hole (the house is almost exactly the size of the existing old building which has a basement).

Best regards

Hello,

the floor plan is fine, only the parents' dressing room is a mess. It brings no advantages due to the strange connection. I would try to place the dressing room between the bathroom and the bedroom.

The budget could be tight, it ultimately depends heavily on the equipment – two large bathrooms each with a bathtub are, for example, cost drivers. Partial basement is not recommended, firstly due to the different foundation levels and the expected settling problems, and secondly due to the low cost savings.

Honestly, I find the house quite dull and unappealing considering the expected costs. The proportions and the external appearance are dreadful.

I think the living value can also be realized on two and a half floors, with the upper floors smaller than the ground floor. A basement would then be dispensable. With the budget, a more exciting cubature can also be realized.

Best regards

: Thanks for the input.

Regarding the dressing room, you mean for example placing the entrance to the hallway next to the bathroom door and not making it accessible from the bedroom. That would probably better fit the usage scenario:
Get up --> Bathroom --> Shower --> Dressing room / Walk-in closet --> Bathroom --> Get dressed --> go downstairs.
If the other person is still sleeping, you disturb them less than if you always have to pass by the bed.

Costs: valid point.

I find your other comments about the appearance of the house interesting. Unfortunately, I don’t have a very good sense of aesthetics. Do you have any idea how it could be done better and differently?

Thinking out loud: omitting the basement means technology, storage, and hobby room have to go upstairs. Also, we would have to buy fill material, since the basement hole is already there.
Then you could make the ground floor a bit bigger to accommodate the living room, kitchen, guest WC, plus the technology and some storage space.
The first and attic floors wouldn’t have to grow, could possibly even become a bit smaller. On the first floor, you could probably make 5 less spacious rooms out of 4 very generous ones and thus move the hobby room up. The attic would then still be, as now, the parents’ domain.

But that’s just the room layout... What could a nicer building form look like within the budget?

EDIT: Another idea might be to integrate the garage roof or part of it as a balcony, if that’s even allowed legally.

Best regards

Well, basement or not? With 3 planned children, storage space is certainly advantageous. But this turns the three-story building into a three-story building with a basement. That’s four staircases! I would also rather turn the master bathroom into a small shower bathroom. The family bathroom is on the children’s floor. The closets in the attic could easily be moved into the rear attic space, so that behind the 2-meter height on the floor there is still a decent amount of storage space available. As mentioned above, the walk-in closet should be accessible from the hallway.

There is initially nothing to change on the children’s floor. The gallery area offers additional workspace or play zone. Whether you put a TV there for the children or a craft desk, at least there is still space to develop. What I actually find worth reconsidering is a) the exterior appearance, because it looks like a cheap multi-family house. I would suggest windows with a sill for the children’s rooms anyway, possibly double-winged with a transom window, also different lighting for the stairwell to maintain charm that suits such a house shape. The Dutch build this charm with this roof pitch in front of you. b) the kitchen: it is far too small for 5 people. You can also see it from the little figure. One person has space there. I also find the entrance area too small for 4-5 people. I think with a small extension and then a revision of the upper ground floor plan, the house can gain – and then possibly without a basement. By the way, I also see the main passage to the terrace more in the kitchen.