Consulting, planning Black Forest house in post-and-plank construction

Hello everyone,

I have been reading this forum for some time now and have already taken note of some important tips. So first of all, many thanks to everyone who participates here in the forum so actively and with such high quality.

I am planning to build myself in the near future. I would like to have a kind of Black Forest house built in post-and-beam construction.

An initial non-binding conversation with a possible general contractor (GC) has already taken place to see if something like this is financially possible for me in principle. He gave me an approximate guideline price of €2100/sqm from the top edge of the floor slab or basement. This then also includes an equipment with which one can be happy. In addition, there is a living basement, which I estimate with a flat rate of €60,000, and a plot of land for about €100,000. That makes for 150 sqm living space (without basement) €315,000 + 60,000 + 100,000 + 30,000 (buffer) = €505,000.

Since this amount is no "peanuts" for me and I am not from the construction field, I need help with the execution of this project. As an experienced project manager, I know that for a lot of money you can get "a lot" of quality but also a lot of rubbish. Since on the GC side negotiators sit who presumably do nothing else all day than planning construction projects, I don't think I am a competent negotiating partner for that.

However, since it is not only about negotiating with the GC, but also about coordinating "Where am I actually allowed to build such a house," I rather need a holistic consultation. I would like to separate this consultation from the actual "implementation" (the building itself), as I want to prevent conflicts of interest this way. I also see tasks like checking the construction service description for completeness and plausibility or advising me during the inspections (and also being liable to some extent for that).

Who is qualified for such a task? Is it an architect, a civil engineer, or does it have to be a sworn expert? Do you think my approach is overly cautious, exaggerated, or appropriate?

Many thanks for your suggestions

Jörg

PS: Is it always like this that it takes so long to write a post? Because of the constant automatic saving, you can only type sooooo slllloooowwwllly. For this entry, I typed/waited for 30 minutes.

Hello Jörg,

A first non-binding conversation with a potential general contractor has already taken place to see whether something like this is financially possible for me in principle. He gave me an approximate guideline price of 2100 €/sqm from the top edge of the floor slab or basement.

I would (almost) claim that this price is set too low; a truncated hip roof is not that inexpensive, especially if it is pulled down as deeply as is usual with this house type.

However, since it is not only about negotiating with the general contractor but also about coordinating "where am I even allowed to build such a house," I rather need a holistic consultation. I would like to separate this consultation from the actual "implementation" (the building itself), as I want to avoid conflicts of interest this way. For example, I see the task as checking the construction performance description for completeness and plausibility or advising me during inspections (and to a certain extent also be liable for this).

Who is qualified for such a task? Is it an architect, a civil engineer, or must it be a sworn expert? Do you consider my approach to be overly cautious, exaggerated, or appropriate?

In your place, I would separate – one partner for reviewing the construction documents/contracts (this can, for example, be a lawyer or also the Association of Private Builders/Builders’ Protection Association etc.) and one partner for external construction supervision. The latter should then be a person who is familiar with the peculiarities of a Black Forest house; in Bavaria, this "can" also be the TÜV. You will definitely find something through the Association of Independent Experts. Choose 2 or 3 near you and have conversations with them; your mind and gut will help you select the expert that is right for you ;)

PS: Is it always like this that it takes so long to write a post? Because of the constant automatic saving, you can only type veeeerrryyy slowly. I took 30 minutes typing/waiting for this entry.

No, then something is wrong with your settings or your browser is unsuitable for this forum.

Rhineland greetings

Hello building expert,

thank you very much for the response.

On the topic of costs: I mentioned these to show that I am thinking about professional support early on. As you can see, I am considering the "rough framework," but I need support with the details. Therefore, thank you again for the note that the 2100€/sqm might be a bit tight for the planned project. Fortunately (because honestly), the general contractor also told me that a "Schwarzwaldhaus" is not exactly a cheap project, and since I will probably be talking to several providers, I should be careful not to compare apples and oranges with the offers. He specifically mentioned the Krüppelwalmdach, as it is not really cheap and is a significant cost driver in an offer.

On the topic of procedure:
I have one more question regarding your proposed three-part division (inspection, accompaniment, execution). In the initial conversation with the general contractor, he asked whether I wanted to use a KFW loan. He wanted to know this because they have a heating regulation problem with the Schwarzwaldhäuser (especially the Krüppelwalmdach). (I don’t know if I used the correct term, but he definitely said that certain criteria have to be met for the KFW loan, which they can meet but only with "disproportionate" additional effort). Because of the large roof, there apparently is not enough sunlight on the house, so the heating system must be designed differently for the KFW loan in order to meet their criteria (for example, a photovoltaic system on the roof), which is then not really needed. (This must somehow be related to the primary energy demand). I don’t want an explanation from you about whether what he says is true, after all, you are here in the forum voluntarily (but if you can or want to say something, I’m happy to listen); can the [Verband privater Bauherren] check such statements and say if they are true or do they rather deal with other topics?

Since I will not be building in Bavaria (sorry, I forgot to mention), but 300 km away in South Baden, I will contact the local representative of the [Verband privater Bauherren] there.

Thank you very much for your support

Thank you very much for the note

Hello,

Fortunately (because honestly), the general contractor also told me that with a "Schwarzwaldhaus" you are not exactly planning a cheap project, and since I will probably talk to several providers, I should be careful not to compare apples and oranges with the offers. Specifically, he mentioned the half-hipped roof, as this is not really cheap and a significant cost driver in an offer.

There are not "only" bad apples in our industry, even if that impression often arises at the main train station :D

In the initial meeting with the general contractor, he asked if I wanted to use a KFW loan. He wanted to know this because they have a heating regulation problem with the Schwarzwald houses (especially the half-hipped roof). (I don’t know if I used the right word, but he definitely meant that for the KFW loan certain criteria have to be met, which they can fulfill, but only with "disproportionate" extra effort). Because of the large roof, there is apparently not enough sunshine on the house, so the heating system must be designed differently just for the KFW loan to meet their criteria, (e.g., photovoltaic system on the roof), which is then not really needed anyway. (This must somehow be related to the primary energy demand). I don’t want you to explain whether what he says is true, after all you are volunteering here in the forum (but if you can or want to say something, I’m happy to listen), can the Association of Private Homeowners check such statements and tell if they are true or do they rather deal with other topics?

One would think this association can do that ... but is that really the case?

A "Schwarzwaldhaus" is a single-family house, which certainly is not built every day. Therefore, it is advisable to seek advice from people who are up to date on the subject. It is not my daily business either; I have not built a comparable house at all. However, I want to agree with this general contractor because I have come across similar issues with houses with a half-hipped roof. There is one point I want to disagree on — a photovoltaic system is not that useless if it is adapted to the expected electricity consumption and this adjustment is sufficient to achieve the KFW 70 status. Storage media are still very expensive and in terms of materials — from my subjective point of view — not really recommendable.

The primary step would be — again from my point of view — a conversation with an independent finance broker you trust. Even though the KfW loans are quite cheap, it is not always the best choice. Conventional loan forms are often attractive alternatives with better long-term options. A well-educated finance broker will address this on their own. If in your private circumstances KFW 70 (as part of the loan) turns out to be uninteresting, then the question of the additional effort is also resolved. This does not mean that you should not try to have a valuable and energy-efficient house built — but you can also "over-invest"; the purpose of this exercise still escapes me because houses based on the Energy Saving Ordinance are by no means fundamentally worse alternatives.

Best regards from the Rhineland