Single-layer masonry vs. double-layer masonry with ETICS

Hello,

Now I would be interested to know whether the WDVS "unbelievers" (building expert especially dislike PS and other "plastic insulations"

I have something against hazardous waste

or whether mineral insulation materials (Multipor for example) are considered "bad"....

Components: thermal insulation material made of calcium silicate hydrates, lime, sand, cement, water, pore formers (porosity > 95 vol.%)

Calcium silicate is a chemical compound from the group of calcium compounds and silicates. Calcium silicate is used in food technology as an anti-caking agent or as a carrier substance (for colorants and emulsifiers). It is approved in the EU as a food additive under number E 552 with maximum limits of 10 grams per kilogram for certain foods, and for spices and dietary supplements also without maximum limits.

Question answered?

Kind regards

Exactly the question of ETICS or single-layer or double-layer has also been occupying me for some time. House building companies are usually fixed on a preferred wall construction. So far, I have asked two specific companies and received different surcharges for the following planning:

Building region Berlin/Brandenburg.

Provider 1:
Townhouse 2-storey, approx. 10.00 x 10.00 + bay window 4.50 x 1.00 single-storey.
Offered wall construction: aerated concrete 17.5 + 16cm ETICS.

Surcharges for single-layer 36.5cm:
ThermoPlan MZ8 + approx. 14,000 euros (mineral wool roll)
Poroton T9-P 6 + approx. 13,000 euros (perlite)
Poroton T8-MW + approx. 14,000 euros (mineral wool roll)
Ytong 0.09 + approx. 8,500 euros

Provider 2:
Townhouse 2-storey, approx. 10.50 x 10.50 + bay window 4.00 x 1.00 single-storey.
Offered wall construction: Poroton T9 Plan (unfilled bricks), 36.5 cm + mineral plaster

Surcharges for filled bricks 36.5cm:
Poroton T 9-MW (mineral wool roll) + approx. 7,000 euros
Poroton T 8-MW (mineral wool roll) + approx. 10,000 euros

A well-known brick manufacturer:

Surcharges for filled bricks 36.5cm vs. ETICS with calcium silicate bricks 24cm:
Poroton T 9-P (perlite) + approx. 3,500 euros (approx. +15 euros / m² exterior wall area)
Poroton T 8-MW (mineral wool) + approx. 2,600 euros (approx. +11 euros / m² exterior wall area)

I myself will probably have to negotiate again, the difference between the figures from the well-known brick manufacturer and the construction companies is really too large.

Regards, o.s.

What did you think, how high the margins of a BU on the material are? 10%?

What did you think, how high the margins of a BU on the material are? 10%?

Yes exactly, I think GU/GÜ surcharges of 10%, maximum 20%, are usual and appropriate when it comes to individual projects. Turnkey construction may follow different rules, especially if there is no cost transparency on the part of the client. Hopefully, more knowledge will also create a better basis for negotiation – that's my hope...

Even though I am not the original poster, a word from me on the question of why I personally don’t like ETICS and will spend a few thousand euros more on a brick wall, even if it doesn’t insulate as well:

ETICS often (though not always) gets dirty quickly and when it does, in a very unattractive way. And that’s already after 10, sometimes even fewer years.

Frequently tilted windows, poorly insulated roller shutter boxes, nearby trees, and missing roof overhangs promote even faster growth of algae, dust & co.

I am from the Berlin/Brandenburg area and could take hundreds of photos of typical ETICS dirt. Many of the new buildings and ETICS renovations are between 0-20 years old and the pattern of dirt is so obvious that I’m surprised this phenomenon is not discussed more often here and in other forums as a disadvantage of ETICS.

Also aside from the cost of repainting: I want to live in an attractive house and not have to be ashamed in 10 years when guests come to the door…

By the way, it is perfectly understandable why most home builders add biocidal additives to the plaster or levelling coats, as this allows them to comfortably sit out the warranty period, since the biocides delay the dirt buildup for several years before the substances are washed out.

Who thinks differently?

Regards, Olaf

Yes exactly, I think GU/GÜ surcharges of 10%, maximum 20%, are common and reasonable when it comes to individual projects. Turnkey construction may follow different rules, especially if there is no cost transparency on the client’s side. More knowledge hopefully also creates a better basis for negotiation – that’s my hope...

You can safely forget about the idea of 10 or 20%. 50% and above is more realistic. More knowledge certainly creates a better basis for negotiation, although usually with little success. Most GUs are tough nuts when it comes to price negotiations and rarely concede anything, even when confronted with their often exaggerated, in my opinion, margins.