Developer or architect?

Hello everyone,

I have been reading here for a little while and would now like to write my first post. How could it be otherwise, directly with a request for help, or rather I would like to seek advice.

My wife and I want to build a single-family house on our own plot of land. After intensive research and searching on the internet, we have narrowed down the choice of builder to two. On the one hand, we have a fixed-price offer from a developer who would build the desired house for €295,000. Furthermore, we have commissioned an architect who will put the individual trades out to tender for us and also supervise the construction.

After obtaining offers for each trade, the same house with the same equipment as the developer would cost us €312,000. Now it is the case that the €312,000 is not a fixed price as with the developer (although certainly some additional costs will still arise there), but the architect believes that he can reduce this amount considerably through bargaining and thus come to about the same sum as the developer.

Personally, we have a good feeling about the execution from both, perhaps a slightly better one with the architect. Furthermore, with the developer we would want to hire a building surveyor, who of course would also have to be paid; this item would be eliminated with the architect since he supervises the hired craftsmen for us.

So far so good, unfortunately, our financial framework would not be sufficient to pay the €312,000 and so we would have to hope that the price can really be reduced a bit. We have set a maximum limit of €300,000, although we have planned an additional €25,000 as a last reserve which will certainly be spent here and there :(

Now to the actual question. Do you see it as realistic that the architect’s estimated price can still be lowered or is it “window dressing” so that he gets the order instead of the developer? What are your assessments regarding a comparison between developers and architects? The warranty is supposedly longer with the architect than with the developer. According to his information, he is liable for 30 years, whereas a developer as a whole probably only for 5 years? Apart from the fact that I do not know whether the architect will still be solvent in 30 years, whether his company will still exist or whether he will still be alive…

Since we are absolute laymen, although we have been planning and trying to inform ourselves for quite some time, I would greatly appreciate lively discussion and advice!

Hello,

there is definitely a chance that the architect can build the house even more cheaply.

Are the offers absolutely comparable? In both offers exactly the same service? The same quality of building materials?
And if you want to hire an independent building surveyor anyway when commissioning the developer, then it only shows that you don’t really trust this developer. And trust is very important when building.

Regards

Yes, the data is the same for both, meaning the architect requested the craftsmen for the individual trades based on the same information from the developer's construction service description. Well, we do have trust in the developer, but we still want to engage an expert to make sure everything is done as it should be, since as laypersons we cannot always assess this properly.

....Since we are absolute laymen, although we have been planning and trying to inform ourselves for quite some time, I would be very happy about a lively discussion and advice!

The project is not a BT, but a GU/GÜ project – legally quite a difference!
Building with a GU/GÜ is usually the better option in terms of price. However, only with external supervision! This already begins with the review of the planning documents, especially the Energy Saving Ordinance (KfW) verification!
The biggest deficits, however, occur in the building services engineering. Here, one should rely on independent, external planning/dimensioning of the system; otherwise, there is a risk of acquiring a money pit!
Typical construction supervision is usually focused exclusively on the building trade; expertise in building services engineering is often lacking.
The additional costs for external building services planning and construction supervision are not comparable to free planning with an architect. It should also be considered that the architect’s cost estimate can easily be 30% higher in the end!

Best regards

Hello,

…On the one hand, we have a fixed-price offer from a developer who would build the desired house for €295,000. Furthermore, we have commissioned an architect …After obtaining offers for each trade, the same house with the same equipment as with the developer would cost us €312,000 …Do you see it as realistic that the architect’s estimated price can still be reduced, or is it just "window dressing" so that they get the contract instead of the developer? What are your assessments regarding a comparison between developers and architects? The warranty with the architect is supposedly longer than with the developer…

First of all, something about warranty periods:

Warranty of every architect: § 634a German Construction Code: for planning buildings 5 years, for planning other work 2 years. When does the warranty period start? With acceptance of the architect’s service, possibly only 5 years after the expiry of the builder’s (contractor’s) warranty period (construction phase 9, § 3 para. 4 HOAI), in total at least 10 and at most 30 years. However, in recent years, there have been efforts by the architects' chambers/courts to significantly reduce this long period; this is already possible today in the case of partial acceptance before stage 9 HOAI, which the client cannot avoid.

Warranty of the builder according to the Construction Code: period § 634a Construction Code: building 5 years, other 2 years, suspension of limitation only by judicial procedures, negotiations, acknowledgment.

Warranty of the builder according to VOB: § 13 No. 4 VOB/B: 4 years for buildings, 2 years for other (contractual extension possible). Defect notification: new period of 2 years; after acceptance of defect removal new period of 2 years. Definitive: 30 years.

Basically, it is possible that the architect can further reduce the prices through skillful negotiation, it may also remain at the stated price; likewise, exceeding the €312,000 is possible; this depends on the architect’s environment – his relationship with the craftsmen requested – and your wishes. Ultimately, your decision should not be based solely on the price but rather reflect the best symbiosis between "ADDED" value, "TOTAL" costs, and required "TRUST".

I would be interested to know whether you – if you decide on the architect – also want to involve independent construction supervision, or only if awarding to a builder?

Kind regards

Thanks in advance for the answers. So it’s not ONLY about the price for us, but as the construction expert writes, about the overall package. I want to clarify as much as possible in advance whether I pay more for the same service with one than with the other... Of course, trust is also reflected in this. I have to admit, I have a slightly better feeling about the architect; it’s a mix of gut feeling and how the conversations went. As a layperson, however, it is unfortunately not always clear whether someone is telling me rubbish or not... That’s why I wanted to ask whether the architect can still negotiate a certain amount out of the discussions. A friend of mine at least confirmed that it was the case for him as well. Of course, the construction will be somewhat more expensive in the end anyway, which is why we’ve planned a financial buffer... But this will certainly happen with both the architect and the developer.

Regarding an expert for construction with the architect. So far, we believed that the developer’s site manager works for the benefit of his company and therefore does not necessarily want to reveal minor defects (can be the case, but doesn’t have to be). If we build with the architect, it’s rather the case that he is obliged to us and has no interest in not objecting to identified construction defects by craftsmen, which is why we wanted to forgo external supervision. I hope we are not completely wrong about that?

@ €uro: Sorry, what is a GU / GÜ? Is there an abbreviation list somewhere here? ;)