But no heat pump in a single-family house?

  • Erstellt am 2013-06-17 13:31:44

Bauqualle

2013-06-19 13:03:50
  • #1
.. that's exactly the point ... and if you then have to repay this six-figure financing amount as a loan and amortization, plus maintenance and operating costs, you can calculate for yourself where and how such a cost-benefit calculation will look in the end ...
 

Wegener SV

2013-06-20 08:16:17
  • #2
Good day, 1.5 years ago I conducted an energy consultation for a small house from the 1950s, actually the house is a disaster. Blowing out the air layer always ended in the calculations with "waterlogged walls," so another approach had to be taken.
So I planned the following measures there.
-Bricking up radiator niches
-Insulating roller shutter boxes
-Replaced windows, now U-value 1.2 (so that they are less well insulated than the walls)
-Insulated roof and top floor ceiling
-Insulated basement ceiling
-Replaced radiators and pipes
-Solar support for heating and domestic hot water on the roof
-Equipped existing chimney with a water-guided insert (theoretical efficiency 84%)
-A tiny gas heater
-A large storage tank
The KFW approved the project through 152 and the customer received his favorable loan.
The customer is highly satisfied, the gas heater barely runs, only on days when there is no sun and nobody has time to stoke the chimney.

Regards, Jürgen

With this I want to say, your architect’s idea works well. On the other hand, such a heat pump naturally requires quite a bit of electricity.
 

€uro

2013-06-20 12:57:17
  • #3
An efficiency is always power-related and merely a lab snapshot, nothing more. It is often misused for advertising purposes. The decisive factor is the heat generator expenditure ratio, since the operator has to pay for energy and not power!
That only means that their requirements/conditions were met on paper. Actual profitability for the operator cannot be derived from this. Other interests are in the foreground here ;-) Furthermore, a low interest rate is hardly synonymous with profitability; even a compulsory initial grace period increases the total cost of financing, especially with investments sometimes considerably exaggerated by the requirements.
If you take the easy way out, you blindly believe in benefactors ;-)
If you reduce the demand beforehand, every heat generator consumes less! ;-)

Best regards.
 

Wegener SV

2013-06-20 13:45:43
  • #4


Regarding the efficiency, it also explicitly and clearly says "theoretical efficiency."

I am not a benefactor but have done what one can do with such a place; if the customer has now bought such a house and has a certain budget for the renovation, including the desired KfW loan, then I strive to make the best out of it. Here one distinguishes between practitioners and theoreticians.
If he had asked me before the purchase, I would have rather advised the customer against buying.

The demand was lowered as much as possible, but some things simply could not be done. Therefore, the focus was on solar and wood here.
Specifically, the customer also has the opportunity to get wood cheaply.

The customer is satisfied; the gas heating hardly ever runs. From that perspective, I think I didn't do too badly.

On the subject; if you now have a house insulated to today's standard, the system works. That was what was asked.

An air heat pump is calculated by the average building technology specialist company with 1 kW of electricity input for 2 kW of heat output – at least the ones I know. Okay, you can find that much or little; personally, I don't find an air heat pump that great.

And finally, I certainly haven't swallowed wisdom with a spoon and like to learn every day.

Best regards from the beautiful Tecklenburger Land

Jürgen Wegener
 

€uro

2013-06-20 15:38:16
  • #5
The addressees were others!
As an expert, I am by no means a theorist, if that was what was meant. On the contrary, the insights gained from practical systems are taken into account in my planning!
If a customer is satisfied and there are no possibilities for comparison, one should not interfere! ;-) If a gas heating system rarely runs, the question of its justification should be asked ;-) No one acquires something in order not to use it or only use it little! One first optimizes what is available before undertaking additional, sometimes uneconomical effort. This distinction usually fails for laypersons; sellers naturally advise additional investment ;-) A knave who thinks ill of this ;-)
Purely "working" or merely "making warm" could be attributed to almost anything. Today, due to the now high investment costs, this is clearly not enough. High investment must bring sustainable savings in operating costs, not on paper but in reality. Here is usually where the paths of sellers and competent specialists diverge.
Whether these are "specialist companies" I would strongly doubt. Presumably they only sell oil, gas, pellets... Well-planned air heat pump systems achieve a yearly performance factor of about 3.5, although this does not reach that of brine systems with a yearly performance factor of about 4.5..4.7, but for these no additional costs are needed for source development.
Personal feelings are subjective, by no means objective. Therefore hardly a suitable, independent advisor. Only facts count here – not one’s own, certainly well-meaning, sentiments.
The same applies to me; every measurement and investigation in practical systems contributes to gaining insights for future projects!

v.g.
 

Wegener SV

2013-06-20 16:16:32
  • #6


€uro, you are quite something! What you say is off-topic, but never mind, I am evil and stupid and you are the hero. A factual discussion with you seems pointless to me. I will no longer participate in the discussion because I have more important things to do.

Have fun, Mr. Expert €uro.

Regards, Jürgen Wegener
 

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