Bartl heat pump is not working properly

Hello forum,

my name is Jean and you are my last hope. Last month we bought a house which is equipped with a BARTL heat pump (air/water). Even during the viewings, the device seemed quite loud to us. However, the seller assured us that it is only a bit louder during the defrosting process and that normal operation is not a problem. Now we have been living here for 1 month and had time to get an impression of the heat pump. I want to briefly outline the case.

The house is from 2004.
Bartl heat pump air built in 2004 with 11.9 kW
On the roof we have a solar thermal system for hot water
Underfloor heating over 124 sqm
Wooden house

In our opinion, the heat pump is very loud and also has many cycles per day in which the indoor unit turns on. I am only talking about the indoor unit the whole time. The outdoor unit does its job and is also not audible. We also saw that a seal of the solar thermal pipe is leaking and that it is only running at 1 BAR. However, I was told that this would be fixed after cleaning and refilling (500-600€).

I almost believe that the controller (Gamme223b) of the heat pump indoor unit is defective because our underfloor heating does not really get warm and if it does, not evenly. The hot water tank is full and we also have water for showering and bathing.

After 1-2 phone calls with the manufacturer, I was even more confused. Sometimes the bivalence thermometer shows PFA, which according to Dr. Google means an exceedance of the max temperature. The previous owner and the technician could not make sense of this.

Now I have had 3 different heating technicians here and all said something different.

Technician 1 told us that the previous owners had an electricity bill of €10,000 per year. At first, I thought he meant 10,000 kW, but he repeated the amount in euros. Technician 2 immediately said the heating system should be removed and replaced by an air/ground brine heat pump. Technician 3 said that the heating system should be tidied up and that this would cost €8,000-10,000.

I am totally uncertain and just don’t know how to best proceed. The manufacturer told me on the last call that someone could come and they would make me a cost estimate in advance for 1 new compressor and/or control unit and then decide on site what they have to do.

Unfortunately, with BARTL, the travel costs alone are already €400-500 and I don’t want to just call someone out on a whim. I wonder who you have to ask about what is wrong with the unit. Is it the actuators or really the controller or or or. I am willing to pay someone for their assessment and/or mediation. I just want good advice and feel totally fooled because everyone immediately wants to sell me their product.

Thank you in advance for tips.

Best regards, Jean

Why is the heating running in this weather? In the entire month of May, we had maybe 3-5 days when it ran at night. Large storage tanks and air-to-water heat pumps are not really great because the air-to-water heat pump tries to keep it warm. Is it warm in the house? What does the heating curve say? Has it been hydraulically balanced? Please go to the pink forum.

BeHaElja. I don’t know the heating curve and it was already set. Yes, it was already on 3-4 today. No, it is not warm here. The controllers in the rooms are set to 22-24 degrees and we have a room temperature of 16°C.

Can you also tell me how to get into the pink?

Search for heiztechnikdialog... But something is seriously wrong... how do you have 16 °C? Is the air conditioning running or are your thermometers broken? If it weren't 16°C, I would say you should first set the switch-off temperature to 10°C AT - but like this?!

Technician 1 told us that the previous owners had an electricity bill of €10,000 p.a. At first, I thought he meant 10,000 kW, but he repeated the amount in euros. Technician 2 immediately said that the heating should be removed and replaced by an air/ground brine heat pump. Technician 3 said that the heating system should be cleaned up and this would cost €8,000-10,000.

Hi,

wow. €10,000 would be, depending on the electricity price, 20-30,000 kWh ONLY ELECTRICITY COSTS for a house of this size from the year of construction: simply unbearable. Because the device would then have a COP (seasonal performance factor) of MINUS (!) ??? (meaning: you could just as well use electric fans from the hardware store to heat). With that energy I heat my equally sized place for 6 years including hot water WITH GAS, without a heat pump.

I can’t imagine that a 2004 air-to-water heat pump has reached the end of its lifespan. Well – you have seen stranger things happen...

The solar thermal line should/must be sealed. But that only indirectly has to do with the heat pump – the TS connects to the hot water tank. Cleaning and refilling will of course not repair a leak. Rather, you have to find the leak, seal it, then refill. What costs €600 for (refilling) remains unclear to me. I know the process, it is quite simple... Forget the solar thermal system for now, it won’t really make a big difference anyway. Take care of the indoor part of the heat pump first.

According to your description, there is a mechanical noise present.

In this device, there is a compressor and several pumps. The pumps: should hardly run – we have 18 degrees and live not far from Aachen, so... if the system is running, it’s making hot water or the heating curve is badly set. This can be adjusted.

The mechanical noise, in my opinion, is quite likely coming from the compressor. Cooling circuit leaking. Compressor overheated/leaking. No refrigerant / low refrigerant + bearing damage. Of course, you can have multiple problems at once, so one of the pumps could also be broken and also the control electronics may be faulty, plus there might be air in the heating circuit, no hydraulic balancing...

Your statements clearly mean: The device is definitely defective. But I dare to diagnose remotely: this is clearly repairable. In that case, I would really risk having the manufacturer come, even if the trip is expensive. Worst case: the device is, contrary to expectations, totally broken – then you have wasted another €500. Ok. But as I said, I don’t believe that.

Compressor, refrigerant, maintenance, new seals, electronics check, adjustment + more, I roughly estimate at a total of €2,000 - €3,500... Given the year of construction, these are even to be expected / almost overdue costs... but cheaper than removing the device without exact examination and diagnosis (which is missing here, your technicians all seem to be cash-cool, but have no desire for real work and expertise) and installing a new device. From around €4,000 repair costs, I would start calculating a business case whether a replacement is worthwhile after getting detailed knowledge of the damage pattern/costs.

Best regards
Thorsten

PS: If I were you, I wouldn’t do any further forum research.

What you describe is so extreme in terms of values - anyone who knows what they're talking about will tell you that something is completely "broken."

Unfortunately, the mentioned error message does not specify WHERE / AT WHICH POINT the temperature(s) are too high. Here I stick to what I wrote: mechanical defects + leaks (which can also be in the outdoor unit...). Maybe it was poorly installed and the fault has basically been there forever.........

My advice is and remains clear: get to the bottom of it with the manufacturer. For example, a line from the indoor to the outdoor unit with coolant could also be defective. You are now replacing both with a new system, but not the lines. Your problem will remain..... in a year you’ll have everything green again....... You first need to know the cause of the malfunction in order to be able to act.

With an air-water heat pump in your house of this size from the year of construction, I estimate the consumption with hot water per year at ELECTRICITY_kWH = about 3,000 or less.
At current temperatures: The device only produces hot water, nothing else.

Best regards
Thorsten