Are the costs for the structural engineer / civil engineer justified?

Good morning,

after much reading, I have now registered here and would like to ask for your assessment.

I have bought a semi-detached house and am carrying out a full renovation. In the course of this, two walls were removed and two walls were moved (an internal balcony was installed), as well as a dormer constructed.
I requested the statics for these changes.
The statics were calculated for the two removed walls and the dormer (ridge beam). Unfortunately, the structural engineer on site did not recognize that there is already a large concrete lintel in one wall and a steel beam is not necessary. Nevertheless, a total of about €2000 (15.5 hours) was charged for this.

A building permit with a submission plan was necessary for the balcony. This was prepared by the structural engineer. He received all measurements and floor plans from me; nothing was measured on site by him. He therefore created a "clean floor plan" and the building permit. He charged about €5000 (39.5 hours) for this.
From everything I have read, this seems very expensive for such a minor matter.

The hourly rate is €105/hour. Additionally, a flat rate of 5% incidental costs was charged.

Since things started out very collegial, I waived a cost estimate. I know this was a mistake. I am only interested in an assessment of the figures.

Thank you in advance!

Hello,

the fees charged are, even considering the services mentioned, rather at the upper end of what is common in practice. The billed hours, especially for the building application and the static calculations, appear quite ambitiously estimated. This applies even more under the premise that no own measurements were carried out and planning bases were provided. Methodically, it is customary for fees for such engineering services to be calculated based on the [HOAI] – basic evaluation, preliminary design, static calculations, application documents, etc. are included as performance phases with fixed fee tables. This should at least be used as a rough reference frame for the appropriateness of the calculation.

Without having stipulated a mandatory order volume, it remains to be noted: With hourly rates around 100 €, one is in the top quarter of the market, which is already worthy of explanation for pure engineering tasks on a single-family house, unless it can be justified by special complexity. The hourly amounts (15.5 hours for the static calculations including miscalculation, 39.5 for the building application) are generous relative to the task, especially since efficiency and routine in house construction usually lead to lower efforts.

Flat incidental cost surcharges of 5% are industry standard, but the real sticking point remains the amount of work. That an unjustifiably demanded or ultimately unnecessary static calculation is explicitly charged without visible reaction to the technical initial situation should at least be critically questioned – here the engineer’s discretion would definitely have been available. Whether this was checked appropriately is not apparent.

In the end, the invoice is not unusual, but from a customer’s perspective cannot be described as cheap. If there is no detailed performance documentation, targeted inquiries may be made on individual items. A final price test via a colleague inquiry would additionally be recommended.

Schnackischnak

Just as a reference
In 2020, I paid around 3000€ for a 40 m2 extension where 5 m of exterior wall on the ground floor were removed (there is still the upper and attic floors). This included the submission plan for the district office.
In 2023/2024, I paid 13k€ for the new construction of a two-family house. This covered architectural services phases 1-4 as well as structural engineering and workshop planning.

In our region, a master craftsman gladly charges €85 net per hour. Therefore, I don't find €105 for an engineer too much.

I know that was a mistake. I am only interested in an assessment of the numbers.

We laypeople do not evaluate the "visible" effort, such as surveying, and the "invisible" effort. Therefore, I always ask for an approximate size when making handshake deals. That is enough to avoid surprises. At first glance, the time estimates and the hourly rate do not seem exceptionally high to me.

Thank you very much for the answers. Especially to Schnackischnak for the detailed one. The hourly rate itself is probably fine. However, I doubt the time required: entering a given floor plan into CAD and filling out a few forms. Especially with a lack of expertise (he referred me to the BayBO a few times and I had to look it up myself).