Analysis of our financial situation

No idea what you want to say, really not

I see... Be smart and play dumb... That always works in certain circles.

Well, here I am again, the scapegoat professionally in another forum for 9 years

I’m mostly the persona non grata here in the forum too. But I guess people probably notice that.

You also seem to have your reputation. You seem to be playing the top salesman here... Then of course a lot would be clear.

It honors you that you feel sorry for people, but first, that’s not what it’s about, and second, suffering is not appropriate here for the OP, also you of course should express your opinion here, only it sounds very confused and somehow doesn’t bring any added value.

Imagine if every post by every user here in the forum had added value for every user... That would be something, man...

On the one hand, you announce early that you’ve paid off a property and feel good about it (or rather put it more on display), on the other hand, you say the OP should just wait, yes, you even suggest paying the property cash. How that should work, no idea, maybe you didn’t have a calculator handy at the Promenade on Sylt or in the Kaffee Kranzler

I preach water and drink it myself.
I myself planned to buy a more expensive property. But I let it go. (For the reasons I stated). And what happened then? Almost 2 years ago a small property with lake access for under 100k came my way in Hamburg and I snapped it up. So, I know what I’m talking about.
So, “putting on a show” is out of the question.
And you have to decide what you want... Should I “of course” write (as you mentioned above), or should I quietly, casually in lowercase somewhere in a subordinate clause mention that I’ve paid off the house? (Which at that price is of course no feat... The real feat was, although I had the money, to refrain from the expensive house!)

You can’t conjure luck... But you don’t have to just throw away the tickets unopened either. You can take the trouble to scratch the tickets free. Eventually, you might get lucky. But without scratching, you are surely the loser.

I guess you lack the ability to put yourself in the consumer, in the OP, to feel how he thinks and what he plans, accordingly, in my view little useful help comes out of it.

I, on the other hand, am amused by your life story and your pity, but this doesn’t belong here and doesn’t help anyone, even if I’d like to shout to you, well done, you handled and mastered it.

What am I supposed to say to that?!
I mean... you talk here about “consumer” etc... So, for you they are all potential customers here. For me they are users asking for other users’ experience. Not every post helps everyone.

I wish you good luck here in the forum with your acquisitions! (Although you don’t seem to have great talent for that... All the more reason I wish you good luck!)

Just a question: why do you feel that >500k debt is burdensome, causes sleepless nights, etc., and that the house should be paid off as quickly as possible, while paying rent to a third party until the end of life is viewed as much less critical?

Even in the case of total over-indebtedness and if I had to pay for the house immediately at the first problem: as long as I have sunk less ancillary costs than rent, it was economically sensible (very roughly simplified), wasn't it?

Just a question: why do you have the feeling that >500k debt burdens you, causes sleepless nights, etc., and that the house should be paid off as quickly as possible? In comparison, paying rent to a third party until the end of life is seen as much less critical?

Even in the case of total over-indebtedness and if I had to pay off the house immediately at the first problem: as long as I have sunk less ancillary costs than rent, it was economically sensible (very roughly simplified)?

Morning BigFoot,

well, personally I would already feel bad with a much lower amount of debt. But everyone is really different here.

It also depends on other factors, such as whether you still have some budget in reserve or not (e.g. an expected inheritance at some point, or whatever).

In addition, the installment for the house is often much higher than the rent.

If my installment is lower than the rent I have to pay, then I wouldn’t worry about it either. But many people just pay 3-4-5-600+ euros more in house installments than for rent, and on top of that there is a provision which you don’t need when renting.

So it is usually a significantly higher cost factor than rent.

Sure, if I compare rent in Hamburg, Munich, Frankfurt of a 5-room 150sqm apartment with a standard house in Stuckenborstel, then that’s naturally extremely misleading. But if the rent in Munich for 100sqm is 1700,-, then usually you won’t find a house within 20-30 km where the monthly installment for a similarly sized property is also 1700,-.

Then there’s the risk of depreciation. Yes yes yes... People here don’t want to know about that... But this risk exists. Especially in more rural areas this risk is quite a bit higher. Who wants to pay off 500k, although the place is “only” worth 350k anymore?! Sure, it can go up again... But it might not... or whatever. But this risk must be accepted if you want to own a house. And partly with a term of 30+ years... So, it would certainly concern me.
Especially because it doesn’t take extreme economic fluctuations to drastically reduce a house’s value. (380KV power lines, wind turbines, new commercial land being developed nearby, like a truck shipping company, etc. etc.) Such things can arise anywhere and reduce the value drastically!

Where I live, there were extremely beautiful old and new houses/estates on a rather small street. I don’t want to know what that all cost 2-3 years ago. Today, a huge supermarket has been built on the parallel street and is now the central hub for the whole area. Additionally, a refugee home has been established not far away. And because the supermarket attracts so many new people, a small new retail industrial area is now being developed in the same vicinity.

Within 2-3 years, in my opinion, the value of the nearby houses has not increased or has strongly decreased.

Well, all such risks must be considered as a homeowner. You shouldn’t have them constantly in mind... But I certainly have thought about some of them more than once.

Then there is job security... Due to the higher monthly financial burden, you should of course take your job a little more seriously than you already do. Your back has to be a bit more flexible than it already is. You have to be able to take more punches. Sure, in a healthy working relationship, all of this doesn’t matter. But healthy working relationships can change from one day to the next... (e.g. through a takeover, new boss, new colleagues, relocation of the company, etc.).

Moreover, you are no longer so professionally flexible. That means if I want to reorient myself because I have been doing my profession for 20 years and want to change it due to, among other things, the examples mentioned above, then it is more difficult with “housing costs” of 2k net than with “housing costs” of 1400,- net. Because especially at the beginning of a reorientation, you earn less. So you are forced to be more restricted/less flexible.

I could now give more examples that cause 500k debt to lead to a more restless sleep... But let's leave it at that.

Compared to rent, we have:

- higher costs
- risk of depreciation
- increased pressure at work
- lack of flexibility in career reorientation

These risks, coupled with usually longer commuting distances to work, more work in the house/garden, etc., can put a lot of pressure on many people and then lead to worse sleep.

Sure, housework, gardening, and longer commute also exist without debt. But with “only” these 3 things, you are not yet at the limit of what you can handle, whereas with 7 things you can be quite close to the limit.

As I said, these examples are just examples and do not apply to everyone. But I do think some are affected by some of them.
Sure, if I earn 10k monthly or my parents leave me 500k, then none of this matters. But unfortunately, that’s not the case for everyone.

And then there are those who shrug all that off, even though financially on their own and not mega-successful in their job.
You can congratulate these people on their “thick skin.”

Hello everyone,

there is quite a lot of life in the house (forum) here.

As has been written several times, the financing question can only be answered seriously if the renovation costs are set realistically, I have understood that. Since the current figures are only based on internet estimates, this is not the case here.

However, a total sum of up to max. €850,000 is also the upper limit we would be willing to invest (regardless of the property). If it turns out that the actual renovation costs are significantly more expensive, we would reject the property.

The core of my inquiry was therefore the consideration of the financial situation. I wanted to find out how other people assess our situation and whether a project of this scale is really feasible. I thank you for the many opinions and feedback on this.

Since further information about the specific property or the intended renovation was requested several times, I would like to share them here nonetheless.

Renovating a 250 sqm house comprehensively in BW does not cost 270, tends rather to be double that.
But maybe you don’t mean a complete renovation?

€2000 with that income I don’t see as a problem now, but I wouldn’t do much more. So definitely check point 1.

Currently, I have the following items on the renovation list; these things must be done.
The figures, as mentioned, are not reliable, but is this now a complete renovation (with costs set too low?) or are simply half of the measures missing?

€50k - new heating system, possibly underfloor heating
€50k - facade insulation
€45k - roof insulation + covering
€30k - bathrooms
€30k - windows + doors
€15k - water pipes
€15k - electrical
€15k - floor coverings
€10k - ventilation system
€10k - miscellaneous
€270k - total

Basics:
- The floor plan and room layout fit our ideas.
- The masonry is in impeccable condition, no cracks in the facade.
- Roof truss can be preserved
- The living area would be approx. 210 m² + 40 m² basement

The thread is so long, I don't want to sift through everything again, so the question is: How much is the land approximately worth compared to the house price?

The plot (1300 m²) has a value of €390,000, which means €135,000 applies to the house (each without incidental purchase costs).

Just a question: why do you feel that >500k debt burdens you, causes sleepless nights, etc., and that the house should be paid off as quickly as possible? Yet paying rent to a third party for life is seen as much less critical?

Even with total over-indebtedness, and if I had to pay for the house immediately at the first problem: as long as I have spent less on ancillary costs than on rent, it was economically sensible (very roughly simplified)?

BigFoot, I see it the same way, above all, isn’t this something to be viewed individually? How can we here, without knowing the person and some – I do not mean this in a bad way at all – do not know people or people in general, without knowing their mentality of life, their lifestyle and outlook on life, presume to make a judgment? Doesn’t everyone have their individual attitude towards life risk, aren’t they mature enough to make their decisions and to approach and master things independently?

It’s not that admonishing and warning, pointing out risks and indicating something to consider is inappropriate, but why then not label it as such and the writing and support as "my opinion," instead of acting as if it were generally true for everyone?

Above all, and this is characteristic for this forum in the area of real estate financing, there is far too little information, or far too little (including individual) information, and instead of requesting and gathering this, often the house is too expensive, the own contributions too high, the construction costs are incomplete, the burdens too high, or the income too low!

Generalizations prevail, although individual information such as:

- Region/City/Place of investment
- multiple incomes
- family cohesion/family backgrounds/support
- risk mentality/consumption behavior/life attitude
- family planning completed
- salary/wage development, career advancement opportunities
- circle of friends/environment in relation to own contribution in new construction

are factors to be considered individually, without which an assessment or evaluation of a project cannot be made soundly and sustainably, and yet this often happens and based on one’s own perspective, which helps no one in the long run to provide good support or be a good advisor.

BigFoot, I see it the same way, above all, isn’t this something that should be considered individually? How are we supposed to judge here without knowing the person and some – I don’t mean this offensively at all – don’t know people or people in general – without knowing their life mentality, their lifestyle and worldview? Doesn’t everyone have their own individual attitude towards life risks, aren’t they mature enough to make their own decisions and to approach and master things independently?

It’s not that admonishing and warning, pointing out risks and suggesting some consideration is inappropriate, but why don’t people then mark it as such and the written text and support as "my opinion," instead of implying that this applies universally to everyone?

Above all, and this is characteristic of this forum in the area of real estate financing, there is far too little information, or far too little (also individual) information is available, and instead of requesting and obtaining this, it is often said the house is too expensive, the own contributions are too high, the construction costs are incomplete, the burdens are too high, or the income is too low!

Generalizations are made, whereas individual information such as:

- Region/City/Investment location
- multiple salaries
- family cohesion/family backgrounds/support
- risk mentality/consumption behavior/life attitude
- completed child planning
- salary, wage development, career advancement opportunities
- circle of friends/environment regarding self-performance in new construction

are factors to be considered individually, without which an assessment or evaluation of a project can neither be carried out in a well-founded nor sustainable manner and yet this often happens, based on one’s own point of view, which does not sustainably help anyone to provide good support or be a good advisor.

Morning Noelmaxim,
You can’t have meant me with the part marked above, because I have made it clear every time that it doesn’t apply to all/everyone.
So, I’ll comment on the rest of your post.

There is a lot of truth in your statements.
Often, one has too little information to express a well-founded opinion.
So one takes what one has and “makes the best of it.” That’s how very long threads/posts with general tips, hints, warnings, recommendations, opinions, etc., arise… That’s normal.

The more detailed a request appears here, the less “small talk” arises.

So, if you’re so keen to have only bare facts and figures in this subforum, then write to the operators and explain your situation to them. Maybe they will help you with your project, change the rules/regulations here in the forum, and then you can nicely analytically pitch your product.

Until then, I apologize that you have to read through endless gibberish and at the same time beg for information so that you have a chance to better position yourself and your product.

With that,
Have a nice weekend!