The agony of choice...

  • Erstellt am 2016-01-14 22:54:49

satisfied

2016-01-16 00:25:05
  • #1
Oh dear, I think the Sandman has already been here.. I'll try to rephrase the question :-) Is there a temperature from which I have to use more electricity for the lwwp than the heat output I get, meaning the COP value drops below 1? Or in other words, from which temperature is the pump no longer economical? Or is there definitely a temperature at which the heating element in the pump has to run?
 

T21150

2016-01-16 07:16:14
  • #2


Good morning!

Regarding 1.: Your finance specialist/financier needs to calculate or compare this for you. Generally, one cannot say this directly as it depends on many factors. A tip here would not be really professional.

Regarding 2.: You probably mean from which point the air-to-water heat pump requires the electric (auxiliary) heating element! This depends on the system itself (manufacturer, type), environmental conditions (weather), the heating and hot water demand, and the house itself. A small example: At -10 degrees outside temperature, the heating forward temperature of 32 degrees may still be produced, but hot water at 57 degrees is then too much. The next day, the air dew point is such that the outdoor unit threatens to ice up, and here the heating element also comes into play. My boss has an (8-year-old) air-to-water heat pump in his house. From about -3 degrees, that old unit then runs on the heating element. Today he regrets having chosen that system back then because very high electricity costs occur. His house is quite similarly insulated as mine but he has almost double the monthly heating costs compared to me (gas condensing boiler). He cannot get more than 42 degrees hot water in winter without the heating element turning on/the unit (outdoor part) icing up. However, there have been considerable technical improvements since then; air-to-water heat pumps have become significantly better! Over the year, with a good system, you now have a COP > 3, rather 3.3 - 3.5. Thus, operating costs are roughly on par with a gas boiler at today’s gas prices, even if the auxiliary heater sometimes needs to turn on for a few days (-5 to -9 degrees for heating and higher temperatures of about -5 degrees for hot water are, I think, a very rough *guideline*).

Regarding 3.: Opinions will differ here again. a) About the photovoltaic system, in my view: Yes, it definitely makes sense in combination with an air-to-water heat pump (summer, autumn, spring). Whether it delivers significant contributions in winter depends on location/weather, snowfall... Now, I am actually a fan of photovoltaic systems with a high self-consumption rate (I will install one myself), so my judgment/advice here is not entirely objective. And concerning b): The combination of air-to-water heat pump with controlled residential ventilation is often offered. It is quite appealing as it saves space. Personally, I do not consider such a combined device optimal and would use separate devices myself (if I had an air-to-water heat pump), but that’s a matter of taste. However, I would never want to do without controlled residential ventilation, although this is also a matter of personal preference.

Regarding 4.: Seen this way, it is certainly a clean and nice solution that pleases the technician’s heart. With one small downside: high investment! Taking a gas connection (+2k), buying a burner (+3k), installing both systems and integrating them (not to be underestimated!). Provision costs for the gas meter will also come on top of the second electricity meter (180-200/year, high basic costs with probably little gas consumption, for that money alone you can buy quite a bit of electricity). The heating engineer is pleased, the electrician too, with the several thousand euro additional turnover. In the short term, you will very likely not recover these extra costs, especially as a modern air-to-water heat pump has a COP of over 3; the annual average costs interest you, not a few days of hardship in Bavarian snowy weather.

My personal advice to you in summary would be:
- Good air-to-water heat pump with high COP from a brand manufacturer
- Photovoltaic system (possibly small, just for the air-to-water heat pump), and if you like and have fun, a larger one at the same time, with a small battery buffer as the icing on the cake (better spend the money from point 4 on something like this)
- Controlled residential ventilation with heat recovery and air-to-water heat pump as separate systems

Best regards, have a good start to the weekend

Thorsten
 

tomtom79

2016-01-16 07:42:48
  • #3
where do you need 57° warm water? You can't really shower with that. 45° is more than enough and that is still very hot. That way you save money again :-)
 

T21150

2016-01-16 07:49:03
  • #4
Hi TomTom: I agree with you, I also set the hot water to exactly the 45 degrees you mentioned, showering goes up to 37. Only for a full bath do I turn it up to 60 degrees with a single charge, otherwise I run out of hot water when filling the (large) tub. By the way, the 57 degrees was just an example with deliberate exaggeration.

Best regards
Thorsten
 

satisfied

2016-01-16 08:40:16
  • #5
Thank you Thorsten for the detailed answer :-)

Does an air-to-water heat pump with indoor installation have any significant advantages or disadvantages? I have also heard that there are people who vent the air by an open basement window and have not laid a hose outside. Is that allowed, does it have any advantage?
 

Legurit

2016-01-16 08:44:04
  • #6
Construction service description = Construction service description

wanted to say that it is pointless to discuss something that you may not even receive or in doubt do not know what it is.
 

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