How do I find a suitable architect? Or rather a developer?

  • Erstellt am 2009-02-25 16:23:55

Azalee

2009-02-25 16:23:55
  • #1
Hello, forum!

Our house construction project involves building a single-family house in a rural area, but close to the city. We are aiming for about 130-140 sqm, have increasingly clearer ideas about the energy technology equipment (heat pump, solar system, controlled ventilation with heat recovery, all at KfW40 level) and still have not decided on two of the most important aspects:

1. Architect or property developer? We need someone who coordinates everything, manages the craftsmen, keeps an eye on the overall project, can more or less accurately calculate the total costs for us, etc. Does this have to be a property developer, or can you also get these services if you hire an architect?

2. Wood or solid construction? I’d rather start a separate thread about that... Basically, this decision is also somewhat related to point 1, because at least property developers are usually committed to a specific building method.

In addition to 1.: Where can I find a suitable architect? Sure, in the Yellow Pages, but there are way too many here in Kassel to check them all out. Unfortunately, we also hardly know anyone who has recently built (with an architect).

To what extent can one get an "initial consultation," based on which one as a future builder can decide on an architect?

Thanks for your help
Christiane
 

Lily

2009-02-26 07:19:51
  • #2
Hi,

with a property developer you get everything from a single source, but I can't tell you if they will build exactly according to your wishes. Our house was built by a property developer and we only had very limited influence on that.

bye Lila
 

Honigkuchen

2009-02-26 08:44:28
  • #3
Caution, this post will be long...



Sounds quite similar to our "building project" except for the heat pump – a bit more sqm, no heat pump, but otherwise... by the way also a slightly sloping plot.



I read in your other thread that it’s a sloping plot; in that case, it is definitely advisable to work with an architect, because an architect can get more out of such a plot for the same or even a lower price than a developer.

A developer also has architects, but initially just stock houses; for everything that needs to be changed from that, costs usually arise, because he cannot simply have the parts for your house made according to the well-known pattern (like a template), but has to make something new specifically for you.

However, there are also a few developers that have houses "off the shelf" for sloping plots.

I have compared many prices in many building magazines – houses with timber frame construction, developer, and solid houses, with architect, and almost always the square meter price for the timber frame house with developer was more expensive, sometimes even much more expensive, than a custom-planned solid house with architect. – Of course, you also have to pay the architect.. but if he is good, it will probably be worth it.

You can commission both your own architect and a developer, so in combination; make sure your architect can and wants to take over the construction management, so that he is always on site when important trades are scheduled, especially during the shell construction. Your architect must then work in your interests. A construction manager from the developer sometimes does not show up, or makes sure everything runs as cheaply as possible for his client, so as little money as possible is spent. Your concerns are probably secondary to him.

- Yes, the architect can "handle" the craftsmen, meaning he can do tenders; once it is clear what you want, he basically makes a list of all the things you need for it; depending on the trade (shell construction, electrical, sanitary, painter, etc.) he then prepares a corresponding tender, to which craftsmen companies can respond. Then he can, preferably together with you, select the best offers for you. Don’t just look at price, but also quality! The cheapest craftsman is not always the best.

So that you can see what an architect can theoretically do for you, have a look here for example:
HOAI Table

Click the individual links to see in detail what can all be included.

Here again about HOAI:
HOAI Service Phases @ARCHITEKT

---

One more question about the "north slope" – so does that mean if you look from the front of your plot towards the back, that is facing north?

Where is the road from which the plot is accessed?
On the south side then?

Does the plot slope down or up?
So is the road at the top or bottom?



Read this:

https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/wuerdet-ihr-massiv-bauen-oder-nicht.402/

- In your other thread, I also commented on Joerg24 and his statements – I can support most of it, but not everything.



We looked for 3 architects via the state chamber of architects.

First, the Federal Chamber of Architects:
Federal Chamber of Architects e.V. BAK

Then selected the correct federal state – if you live in Kassel, that should be Hesse, so: Chamber of Architects and Urban Planners Hessen

They also have a member search.
Office directory of self-employed architects and urban planners:
AKH

Enter region/ZIP code/town of your plot, select discipline: architecture, then another submenu will appear named "Focus"; select single-family/row houses there; under fields of activity probably best to select planning and construction management.

"Energie-saving planning" also sounds very good, but that is another criterion you can query afterwards.

Unfortunately your member search is worse than ours at this point, as we can already query things like low-energy houses beforehand.

Under "Special Focus" you could manually enter something, but I would leave that out to be safe, because if the architect did not label himself exactly as you did, then he will not be shown to you, although he is actually the right one for you...

You will then get a list and call up each architectural office, which is no more than 20 min by car from your plot, in a separate tab of your browser.

There will be things like "office philosophy," "references," for some also "competitions," and importantly: "fields of activity" and "object / main areas of service."

Then you can narrow down further.

We, for example, excluded some where it turned out that they focus more on municipal stuff, so on the municipality/cities. They can make really good money there, and we were then afraid that they would not care to supervise the work well for a rather humble, comparatively inexpensive, i.e. unprofitable for architects, single-family house... might be a prejudice, but we still found 3 good architects active for many years.

---

For us it was like this: As said, there was also an architect search involved; we entered the municipality where we are going to build, then "low-energy houses/passive houses," then tried other search patterns: "barrier-free" or "ecological building," etc., and then we noted all architects who live or have an office at most 20 minutes by car from our plot.

Then we sorted the remaining architects according to the main areas of activity they gave and finally we called the remaining ones.

Ask the following questions:

1. Since when/how many years has the architect been active?
2. How many reference objects does he have approximately?
3. If he has been active for many years, he should have many reference objects; then tell him that he can surely email you some addresses and phone numbers – after agreement with the respective former clients – so that you can call them and ask whether they were or are satisfied with him and their house; whether they would build the same way again or would have done something differently in retrospect, etc.

If it’s a good architect, he will be able to provide you with at least 10 addresses.
Tell him it is especially important for you to get phone numbers/addresses of people who built similarly to your plan, i.e. KfW40 or better, single-family house, solar, controlled ventilation, heat pump or pellets/firewood etc.

We have 3 architects, 2 of them have already emailed us addresses/phone numbers, calls will be made this weekend.

Also ask him what HOAI fee rate he charges for his services.
If he immediately says: "Always the middle rate," then forget him.

Our architects told us:
"Basically the lowest rate – because we don’t always fulfill every single task described by the respective service phase (short: LP); but if all tasks are taken on or if additional work arises, then one would have to go back to the middle rate here or there – but I would formulate that explicitly for you in a preliminary offer."

That means: You estimate the total NET costs (the architect calculates his fee from the net value of the contract) excluding the plot and additional building costs at about 250,000 Euros, and that would be exactly what you can afford at maximum for the other incurred house costs (including interior and technical equipment).

Then tell him – hot tip! – that you can spend up to 250,000 Euros net for house construction including interior finishing and technical devices, no more, and that he MUST NOT exceed that.

Background: I believe I read somewhere that the architect is theoretically permitted to exceed the estimated sum by up to 20%... reject that rigorously beforehand and put it in the contract!

- The higher the construction sum, the higher what he earns... but you can offer him a different incentive:
If he can plan the house as you want it (KfW40, ventilation, solar, 130-140 sqm, etc. ...) but comes under your budget, so you pay less (e.g. 220,000 instead of 250,000 Euros), then you can agree on a success bonus with him; I believe I read that 20% of the savings is usual, in this case 20% of 30,000 Euro = 6,000 Euro. That would surely please him.

That motivates him to really work in your interest and not only for his own wallet.

And since you want/need a lot of technical gadgets anyway, it is rather unlikely that he will save you a lot on a fully finished and furnished house.

- As for us, we already know (we suspect) that the money will not be enough to fully develop all floors – so we will definitely develop one floor; if that’s enough, then also the attic; and the garden floor/floor that is half in the slope will be done later, as it is completely sufficient for our current family situation for now.

But plan directly for the future and include everything; for example, we also have strong electricity (or whatever it’s called) laid downstairs in the garden floor so that we can later connect another small kitchen there (our old one from our current apartment here); and drainage pipes of course as well.

Plan the bathroom there; but only have toilet bowl and washbasin installed. Shower only later with the complete expansion. Etc.

You surely know what I mean.



Hmm well, I would make it dependent on the reference objects...
on how satisfied the people are... but UNFORTUNATELY probably also on a rough draft.

Explanation:
There was a tip in building magazines that you should select at least 2, better 3 architects whose design style you like.

Then you meet with them personally, without obligation (we’ll do this too), and first see whether the chemistry is right, or he is totally unsympathetic right away – then reject him immediately, because you have to be able to work well together.

Then you do a non-binding brief site visit so that the architect can estimate the possible difficulty and the HOAI rate applicable depending on the service phase.

Give him the development plan so that he knows what possible restrictions there are for your plot (only such a roof, only this ridge direction, maximum building height etc.), otherwise he wouldn’t know what he is allowed to design and what not.

We will probably do it the way the advice was:
We will have 2 of the 3 architects – if it’s not too expensive and we find all sympathetic and competent – even all 3 architects make a rough draft for us.

That means: Based on everything you told him, what technical stuff you want, but also the rooms you need (number, approximately location/layout in the house), and your budget, he should create a kind of floor plan.

Not yet super detailed with millimeter measurements and whatnot, but so that you can see: aha, that’s the front door, 1.10 m wide, the bathroom should be there, there on the left there is a shower this big, there is the bathtub, the toilet, washbasin, there is the bathroom door, which opens inward or outward... There is the staircase upstairs, there downstairs, there is the kitchen, there would be the stove... blah blah.

I don’t mean scribbling with a pen on graph paper or anything like that. They have professional software (some may still do it by hand), with which they can propose something decent.

Also a rough exterior view, i.e. windows, roof shape, where the garage is, how high the house is, etc.

Since this is already a service within the meaning of HOAI, he has to charge you for this (whether he wants to or not); up to about 2,000 Euros per draft can be due. I don’t believe you will get an all-encompassing free consultation from a professional architect...

Make a fixed price beforehand for the draft and document it contractually. Better also contractually agree that if you decide on him, the amount will be credited against his total claim for your building project.

Don’t tell him that you still have one or two other architects who will make a draft for you.

Only this way you can be sure they do not coordinate with each other, and also they can plan more freely.

You will then get 2 or 3 possibly quite different drafts and then choose the one you like best.

Of course, you have to pay the other drafts as well, but then it was worth it. Because from every development plan and your house ideas, an architect can conjure up hundreds of different drafts, and you might regret afterwards if you only got a normal house that you could have picked from the internet as a floor plan without an architect.

You can of course have the draft you like best changed if it doesn’t suit you 100% yet but is closest to your idea – you just have to clarify how much he charges for that (put it in writing, not orally! – No matter how nice someone is, when money is involved, the presumed friendship ends.)

Always specify your wishes in advance, always mention your tight budget that must under no circumstances be exceeded.

Only if you clearly say what you absolutely want/must have, can he make good proposals.

- So now I will respond also in your other thread

Regards Honigkuchen

PS: If you are still interested, you can also read here:

https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/wie-viel-kostet-architekt.991/

and here:

https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/wie-viel-kostet-architekt.991/

Regarding heat pump here:

https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/und-was-fuer-heizsystem.1054/

and here:

https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/und-was-fuer-heizsystem.1054/page-2#post-7051
 

Azalee

2009-02-26 14:20:05
  • #4
Hi! Wow, another such long answer, thanks Someone really knows their stuff *g* Super!


Yes, we’ve read that a few times already. Although the probably best developer in this area generally plans together with an architect and us, meaning there are so-called model houses, but each house is individually modified or newly designed. So the model houses are more of a rough guideline.


Ah, okay, thanks for the info. Because I would definitely be nervous about that organization and coordination...


So, the street is above the plot. Up is south, down the slope is north. More precisely, the slope direction at our location is rather south-southwest to north-northeast. So the plot slopes gently downward. The height difference is about 6m over about 30m length. The plot is 750 sqm with dimensions of about 30m x 25m.

The slope shouldn’t be too problematic because it is somewhat "bulgy," meaning it is quite open to the sides to the west and east. Especially from the northwest side, where the sun sets in summer, there is quite a lot of space and view. The only downside is the shading by the long shadows of houses above us in winter (they would then be in the second row from above).


Already seen, thanks


Ah, very good, thanks! I’ll have a look there right away...


Okay, we’ll first present that list to the architects
A colleague’s husband is also an architect, he’ll probably be our first contact. But I think he specializes in wood.


Okay, we haven’t thought about that yet...


Well, that will probably be a bit less. Our current idea is max. 300,000€ for everything, including the plot. But that alone already costs 70,000€ plus property transfer tax. Turnkey (but without outdoor facilities etc.) we shouldn’t exceed just above 200,000€, because from our budget we also have to pay the architect...


Ok, thanks for the tip!

[/Quote]- The higher the construction sum, the more he earns... but you can offer him another incentive:
If he can plan the house the way you want (KfW40, ventilation, solar, 130-140 sqm, etc. etc...), but undershoots your budget, meaning you have to pay less (e.g. 220,000 instead of 250,000 euros), then you can agree on a success bonus with him; I think I read that 20% of the savings is usual, in that case 20% of 30,000 euros = 6,000 euros.[/Quote]
Sounds reasonable...

Many thanks for the many tips, I first have to add them all to my construction tips list

Best regards,
Christiane
 

Lily

2009-02-26 16:23:00
  • #5
Hello Azalee,

I wanted to say something about the developers, you settle the accounts directly with the developer. Therefore, you can never really know what he pays the craftsmen and whether cheaper building materials are being used. I have had bad experiences with that myself.

by Boogy
 

Lily

2009-02-26 16:48:58
  • #6


I have noticed that too, B tiles were laid and A tiles were billed.

by Sam22
 

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